Difference between revisions of "Royal Commission report day 48 page 3"

Revision as of 15:41, 20 November 2015

Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence

previous page / next page

The Royal Commission evidence for 1/9/1881

'

full text

(see also introduction to day 48)

A. These are the printed minutes of evidence referred to in the declaration of Robert Ramsay , made before me this 31st day of August 1881.— CHARLES RYAN , J.P.

KELLY REWARD BOARD.—TUESDAY, 8TH MACH 1881.—The Hon. Robert Ramsay , M.L.A., examined.

1 The principal object for which we wanted to see you was to find out from you the nature of the position in which you placed Mr. Hare—whether you placed him in an entirely independent and responsible position, acting on his own judgment in everything?— I will state the facts as briefly as possible. Shortly after the formation of the Service Ministry the question of the capture of the Kellys came up in the Cabinet, and formed the subject of several discussions at the time there was evidently a very strong feeling in the public mind that the police were to blame in connection with the proceedings for the capture of these men. Articles appeared daily in the public press, in various portions of the colony, calling attention to the delay that had taken place and the want of organization in connection with the pursuit of these criminals. I had several interviews with the Chief Commissioner of Police on the subject, and communicated the result of those interviews to the cabinet. At last the matter was put into my hands to deal with on my own responsibility, and as the result of that, and of enquires I made, I told Captain Standish that in my opinion Mr. Hare was the of officer in the police who was most likely to effect a capture. I had instituted independent enquiries, and gathered information from various sources. I requested the Commissioner to send for Mr. Hare, and I saw him at the Chief Secretary's office either at the end of April or the beginning of May, and I told him that the matter had been discussed by the Cabinet, and the conclusion arrived at was that he was to proceed to Benalla and take the entire control of the pursuit of those men. I told him that in doing so he was to feel himself entirely untrammelled by any regulation of any kind—in fact, he was to assume the entire responsibility, and in whatever steps he took for that purpose he would have the entire support of the Government. In regard to money, he was to feel that he was unfettered, that the utmost confidence was placed in his judgment that his proceedings would not involve unnecessary expenditure, but that if money could be profitably employed in the capture of these men he was to feel himself entirely uncontrolled. He told me, in reply, that there were men in the force who were his seniors, and he felt himself in a position of difficulty on that account. He then referred to his health and I told him that it was of the utmost importance in connection with the matter that he should take the responsibility. I then had an interview with Captain Standish , in which I briefly related these matters to him. I afterwards saw Superintendent Nicolson , and he asked that he might be allowed a still further time in order to pursue his own line of action with reference to the capture of the Kellys , and I allowed him a month further, and Mr. Hare 's proceeding to Benalla was delayed for that time. At the expiry of the month Superintendent Hare proceeded to Benalla and took entire charge, with my full concurrence, and that of the Government

2 I understood you to say responsible to no one but the Government?— Responsible to no one but the Government. There is another matter that perhaps I should mention. Mr. Hare mentioned, in connection with his state of health, that he felt he was taking a great responsibility in going, that he was going at the risk of his life, and that his determination was not to come down until the men were captured. He spoke of having been engaged in the capture of Power, and of the promise that had been made by the Chief Secretary of promotion in the event of that capture, which promise remained unfulfilled up to that time; and he showed me a letter, signed by Mr. Moore, who was then Under Secretary—Sir James McCulloch being the Chief Secretary—bearing on the subject, and he said he hoped that if his life was sacrificed this matter should be considered. I assured him that, in the event of the Government remaining in office, that should certainly be done, and in the event of any changes taking place I would leave a minute with my successors, whoever they might be. This is the minute that I left:— “Having with some difficulty induced Mr. Hare to take charge of the entire arrangements for the capture of the Kelly gang on the distinct promise from me that, as he did so at the imminent risk of his life, he should be substantially rewarded if successful, I feel it only due to him to place on record that, had the Ministry remained in office, Mr. Hare would have been promoted to the first vacancy in the force and a substantial sum would have been placed on the Estimates as some acknowledgment for his most valuable services. The great energy he displayed, the risk he ran, and the serious and unfortunately permanent injury he has sustained, all render this duty so incumbent on those who follow, that I feel assured my successor will have no hesitation in adopting the same course.— 19th July 1880 .”

3 The promise you made as Chief Secretary, on behalf of the Government, was with reference to promotion—giving Mr. Hare a reward for his services if he succeeded?— Distinctly so—promotion and a substantial recognition. It was fully my intention to have promoted him if any vacancy had occurred, because it was a matter in which the whole public of the colony was concerned.

4 And if his health was injured, you would give a substantial recognition?— Certainly. With regard to the Kelly gang, it was a matter affecting the whole of Australia it was the common talk whenever two people met.

5 Would it be a fair question to ask what sum you contemplated putting on the Estimates?— I have not the slightest doubt that if £6,000 had been proposed at the time, there would not have been a dissentient voice. I feel it would be a very small recognition; in fact the proceedings of those men were a heavy incubus on the entire colony, rendering life and property unsafe.

6 From your experience as a public man, you are still of opinion the State should recognize Mr. Hare's services?— I am.

7 What change was made in the mode of proceeding after Mr. Hare went up?— It seemed to me that Mr. Hare was a man who had a wonderful faculty of infusing his own spirit into his men—that instead of being trammelled by regulation he selected the men in whom he had confidence, and he allowed them a considerable latitude. In the next place he was thoroughly acquainted with the country—he had the means of getting information that no one else had at the time. In fact, if I were to go into some matters within my own knowledge, I could satisfy the Board on the point; but of course a great deal of the information was confidential, involving a great many people in the district. There was such a reign of terror that those who were resident in the district were afraid of giving the slightest clue to the police, for fear their lives might be sacrificed. All these matters were gone into between Mr. Hare and myself, in fact, from the time Mr. Hare was appointed, there was a spirit of energy displayed in the pursuit of those men that was altogether unknown up to that period.

8 Did the Chief Commissioner of Police coincide in your judgment?— He did.

9 How long was Mr. Hare up there before those men were taken?— He was up on the 2nd of June, and they were taken on the 28th of June. In relation to that. That is one of the matters to which Mr. Hare referred. He told me that those men were in fear of the black trackers, that so long as they remained there they were not likely to break cover, but immediately the trackers were removed they would be at once heard of, and his plan of operations was such that their capture was certain immediately they made their appearance.

10 Was the reward spoken of to Mr. Hare as an inducement?— I do not know anything about that.

11 “I received a communication from you that Mr. O'Connor and his black trackers were to be sent back to Queensland”—was that Mr. Hare's idea or the Government?— We had sent up to Queensland for black trackers; Mr. Chomley had gone up to Queensland to obtain them—in fact, they were on their way down at the time.

12 Why were they sending away Mr. O'Connor's men—were they of no use?— It was thought that others could be got down equally efficient—in fact, the Queensland Government were anxious to get those trackers back.

The honorable member withdrew. ....

Previous page / Next page

The previous day / next day . . . Royal Commission index RC_index.html