Royal Commission report day 19 page 32
The Royal Commission evidence for 13/5/1881
(see also introduction to day 19)
'Const Thomas Kirkham giving evidence'
6724 Was it after the prisoners came out or before?— After.
6725 Had you been in the drain all that time?— No, I kind not; I had been all round the house.
6726 Were there any other policemen moving about?— They were changing positions.
6727 Often?— Yes.
6728 Have you any recollection of where Mr. Sadleir and Mr. O'Connor went to after the Kelly business?— No, I did not see much of them after that. I saw Mr. Sadleir on the railway station, sending telegrams away and so forth.
6729 What time was that?— Shortly after Kelly was taken.
6730 When did you see him again after that?— Next time I took particular notice of him I think was when the house was being fired in the afternoon.
6731 I thought you said you saw him when the people came out of the house; did you see the people coming out?— Yes.
6732 Did you see Mr. Sadleir then or Mr. O'Connor?— I think I saw Mr. Sadleir up where the men were being drafted, Constable Armstrong and Mr. Sadleir and one or two more. They were all lying on their bellies for safety, and they were being drafted.
6733 By Mr. Sadleir. —Who were lying that way?— The civilians.
6734 By the Commission. —Did you receive any order from any of the officers after the women came out?— I do not remember receiving any orders particularly.
6735 When you rushed up to the house at first, was it Mr. O'Connor who gave you orders to surround the house, or who?— No, Mr. Hare.
6736 What did Mr. Hare do then—you did not see him after?— I saw him sitting on a log, and I asked him if the wound was much; and he said he was shot, and said, “For God's sake, surround the house, and do not let them get away; do the best you can with them.”
6737 When Mr. Sadleir came on the ground was there any firing?— There was a little; my ammunition had gone.
6738 The other constables were firing? I would not be sure about that. I think Mr. Sadleir when he came, gave us an order to fire a volley at the house, but to fire high.
6739 Who first informed you there were any civilians in the house at all?— Constables Gascoigne and Phillips went down about a man who came out of the front of the house, named McHugh. He said, I believe, “You can fire away for a month; the fellows are all in iron, and the place is full of civilians.”
6740 Was there not a woman came out of the house, before Mr. Sadleir arrived, with a wounded child?— McHugh, a man, came out with the child.
6741 What time was that?— I could not say.
6742 Whose child was it?— I think it was Reardon's child.
6743 You knew at that time that civilians were in the house?— I did not know there were till McHugh came out; Gascoigne and the others found it out from him.
6744 Where did he come?— Straight in front of the house and down the railway line.
6745 Towards the station?— Towards the gate-house.
6746 Who was supposed to be in charge of the police at that time?— Senior-Constable Kelly, I suppose.
6747 Kelly was one of the first party that arrived?— Yes.
6748 And he seemed to take charge of the party after Mr. Hare was wounded, and was the most active in placing the men around the house?— When he came to me and I asked him for ammunition, he said he had been round to the back; and I asked if there were any men there, and he said, “Yes,” there were men at the back.
6749 Did you not see Mr. Sadleir before the civilians came out, calling on the civilians to come out; you say you were in front of the house at that time?— No, I cannot say I did.
6750 You rushed up as soon as they came out to where they were?— Yes.
6751 And Mr. Sadleir was there then?— Yes.
6752 And Mr. O Connor?— I cannot say I saw Mr. O'Connor then.
6753 You got no orders from Mr. O'Connor, in any shape or form, but to remain in the drain?— He said, “Kirkham, I recommend you to stay here.”....
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