Royal Commission report day 25 page 12
Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission Report
The Royal Commission evidence for 2/6/1881
(see also introduction to day 25)
[[../../people/peD_G/gascoignePmc.html|Const Charles Gascoigne]] giving evidence
9802 At the first going off?— No, about six o'clock .
9803 By the Commission— It was quite true the civilians were fired upon when they came out?— By only one shot, from Jacky, the tracker. I saw him aim deliberately at the man with a white pocket handkerchief. That was ten minutes before the prisoners made their escape from the hotel.
9804 That was not at the time the civilians were coming out?— Yes. I believe that Riordan the statement at Glenrowan, and he said the police fired on the civilians; that is the only shot that was fired–that single shot at that time.
9805 Was that at the time the civilians were coming out or at the time of the flag of truce?— The flag of truce.
9806 There was no shot fired at the time the civilians came out, as far as you know?— I do not believe there was.
9807 Were you in a position to say whether any members of the police fired from the Wangaratta side at any parties leaving the hotel?— No, I think Riordan, in his statement, said that the man went to the window with a handkerchief two or three times before this flag of truce came out, and he was shot at. I wish to say that is not correct. In my position–I had the end on the Benalla side of the front, and nearly all the back except the windows–I could see end on all the building. [The witness pointed out his exact position on the plan.]
9808 You have been in Benalla, and know all the country round there from your boyhood?— Yes.
9809 In your opinion, is it more efficacious for the securing of those men, leaving them alone and depending upon private information to get them, or is it the best plan to keep them completely under surveillance of the police throughout?— I believe it is best to keep them–not to watch them too much, but to let them have a little of their own way; but any that do wrong, to pounce on them at once; not to have spies looking out, because it only maddens them–that is the private spies–when they find it out. It only maddens them, and makes them turn against the police. I believe in the police going amongst them, and knowing them.
9810 You believe it keeps them more under control?— Yes.
9811 And immediately on an outbreak they should be arrested?— Yes, the men would know them, and their whereabouts, and know where to capture them.
9812 But by keeping away from them, you do not know their associates, or their whereabouts, or habits?— No.
9813 Do you know any special case of any man who would not give information now, after what has been said about the sympathizers–in consequence of that?— No, but I do not believe you would get anyone at Greta that you could rely on.
9814 Most of the men have been asked whether they think it would have been more judicious to have rushed the house or pursue the course that was pursued at Glenrowan?— Well, I believe the outlaws could have been taken easily–the two men–if there were not so many police on the ground; there were inexperienced men on the ground, cross-firing on the other men–they were not used to firing a rifle, and thought the ball would not go through the house–they had no experience in firearms.
9815 Then it is your opinion that although there was a large number of police surrounding the hotel, had the police been instructed by their officers not to fire because a party–that is, a small party–was about to rush the building, that would have been the best plan to have adopted?— Yes, I believe so.
9816 You believe the two men could have been captured without the burning of the hotel?— I believe they could have been, without the burning of the hotel.
9817 Without loss of life?— No, I will not say without loss of life.
9818 If you had been in charge, would you have adopted that in preference to blowing the place down with a cannon, or setting fire to it?— I would have let one man, if he could, have got in, the others to back him up- in the passage. I would not have sent in two or three, rushing.
9819 Could that have been done by recalling the men at the other side?— Yes.
9820 Are you a good shot yourself with the rifle?— Yes.
9821 Have you had plenty of practice?— Not with the Police Department. I was only out three times practising with them.....
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