Royal Commission report day 28 page 17

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The Royal Commission evidence for 9/6/1881

(full text transcription)

(see also introduction to day 28)

[[../../people/peA/arthurJPC.html|Const James Arthur]] giving evidence

11369 Can you tell who can give information on that point?— I never talked to any one except Sergeant Porter on it. He is the only man who could give the information.

11370 Is he dead?— Yes. He told me he sent the men away as they had been delayed there, I forget how many hours , contrary to Mr. Nicolson's orders.

11371 Who ordered them away first?— I think the Chief Commissioner.

11372 You were all day at Glenrowan?— When I saw Mr. Sadleir it was about half-past eight or nine, and I went to him. He was down by the railway fence, and I asked him what he was going to do, that the men had armour; and he said he had heard that, but he had sent for a cannon to Melbourne.

11373 Did he say that he had been advised to send for it?— No, he did not; he said to me, “You get on a horse and ride down to Benalla, and take another telegram,” and the engine was going down, and I went with it and came back at twelve.

11374 What position did you take up when you went back?— Anywhere; there was nothing to be done when I went back. I went back to the back of the hotel, where I was among my mates.

11375 You went to the back of the hotel to your old position, at the Wangaratta end?— Yes.

11376 Did you remain there all day?— Yes, until we were told off to fire into the front of the house, when it was set fire to.

11377 Were there any shots fired out of the hotel after the time you came back—did you see any?— No, I never saw any.

11378 Could they be fired out towards the front without your seeing them?— Yes.

11379 Or could they be fired out of either side without your seeing?— I could hear the report.

11380 Could you be sure it would be a gun fired there, or somewhere near the house?— Yes, I was near.

11381 Your opinion is there were no shots fired out of the house after twelve?— No.

11382 If any others have sworn that they saw, about half-past one or two, two men come out in the small passage of the house and fire, would that be correct?— I do not think it.

11383 From the position you were in you could judge?— Yes, I could see any part of the back of the building.

11384 You say you went to Benalla and were kept in barracks?— Yes.

11385 Did you wish to go out yourself?— I would like to go out in five or six of a party.

11386 When they were going out?— There was never a party out. When I went first, there was one party went out, and none afterwards.

11387 Were you kept in contrary to your own inclinations?— We were.

11388 How many?— All the men were desirous of going out to catch them, to do the best they could.

11389 Do you know the reason why you were kept in?— No.

11390 Did you ever think of any reason?— No.

11391 Was there ever any reason assigned why you were not allowed to go out?— Well, I cannot say there was.

11392 Were you told off for special duty in the barracks?— I was guarding the banks in the town of Benalla; there were two of us doing that.

11393 What time did you see the figure of Ned Kelly?— Shortly after seven.

11394 What position did you have in relation to the position Kelly was in?— At a tree at the back of the hotel

11395

11396 How many members of the police did you see around there?— Montiford, Healey, Kelly, Arthur, and I and Sergeant Steele.

11397 Did you fire at Ned Kelly at that time?— Yes, I took four or five shots before I left the tree

11398 Were you there immediately after he was captured?— Yes, I was behind Steele when he put his hand on his wrist.

11399 How many others were close to him?—Kelly and Steele were the first.

11400 Before you arrived?— I was about the fourth or fifth; I was there when Bracken and Dwyer and Montiford came up.

11401 Did you see Dowsett?— Yes.

11402 Did you see any members of the police attempting to make their escape from Kelly?— Arthur was about ten yards from me, and Healey between me and Arthur at this particular time; and after I had fired two shots I said, “Run round him, boys; that is the only show we have with him”; and Arthur and Montiford ran round. Ned Kelly stopped then and took a look round when he heard that, and went and sat down behind the stump, and sat there for seven minutes.

11403 Did you or any other member of the police make a movement at that time that would indicate that you were trying to escape from the outlaw?— No.

11404 And the movements made by the police were for the purpose of getting into better position?— Yes; we were all like this round the hotel at first [describing the same]. Ned Kelly did not go individually towards Steele at all, but towards the house.

11405 Then it would not be the fact for any one member of the police to say that if it had not been for his individual efforts Kelly would have been able to make his retreat to the hotel?— No.....

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