Royal Commission report day 4 page 2

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The Royal Commission evidence for 29/3/1881

(full text transcription)

(see also introduction to day 4)

Assistant Commissioner Nicholson giving evidence

929 What date?- I arranged with Captain Standish that I would come on the following Monday morning. I will give the date presently. Captain Standish said, "Well, if you wish an interview with the Chief Secretary, I should wish to be present," and I said, "Certainly, I have not the slightest objection to you or anyone else being present." I would not go into this fully but that Captain Standish says I attempted to steal an interview without him. On my arrival at the office on Monday, Captain Standish told me I could not see the Chief Secretary till two o'clock-that he would not be at the office till two. As I was just leaving Captain Standish's office after hearing that, I saw the Chief Secretary going up stairs to his office.

930 Both departments are in the same building?- Yes. I followed Mr. Ramsay up stairs-I did not rush up after him, as was insinuated-and, when he reached his room, I asked him if he would allow me to speak to him. I said, "Mr. Ramsay, Captain Standish tells me that I am to have an interview with you at two o'clock; he did not expect you at your office till two; would it be all the same to have the interview now, because I wish to return to Benalla by the half past two train?" Mr. Ramsay was quite agreeable, and I was turning away from him to go and tell Captain Standish when Captain Standish came following up, running after me, as if I were trying to steal a march on him, and looking at me in an insulting manner, as if I had been trying to steal a march upon him.

931 That was the inference you drew?- Yes, he came looking at me in that way.

932 And you now, in giving your evidence, say that he did look at you, and you felt he was looking at you in the way you describe. That is what you swear?- I do; and my impression was confirmed by what he said, the other day, in evidence before this Commission. Mr. Ramsay heard me most patiently.

933 Where was this?- In his own room-in the Chief Secretary's room, in the presence of Captain Standish. And be received me more than courteously, I may say kindly; and he assured me that it was no reflection intended on me; that it was just a change, like in a game of cricket-a change of bowlers.

934 Was that the exact expression he used?- That was the exact expression he used on that occasion. I explained to him how dangerous this was, and that there was very little analogy between the Kelly business and the game of cricket; and how dangerous this change that was about to be made would be. I then left Mr. Ramsay, he promising to consider my application not to be removed. I understood that the thing had already been decided upon.

935 Your remonstrance was with a view of his reconsidering his determination?- Yes; I called at Mr. Ramsay's office in the course of the afternoon.

936 What office?- His private office, that afternoon; and he led me to understand that I would receive an intimation about the matter-a favorable reply. On that occasion I did not force myself into Mr. Ramsay's room, but saw him in the usual way that anyone going to his office would see him.

937 Was that about the time Sir James McCulloch's name was introduced?- No, after that. I returned then to the district.

938 Why did you ask for this extension-a month's time?- Because just at that time I was receiving other information from that man that wrote about the armour, and ought to have gone on. The information began to come in at that time when I went back very fast, of a very important character-all indicating a speedy termination.

939 You stated in your evidence that between this date, on or about the 20th April, your agents were giving you almost daily information?- Yes.

940 And you stated in your evidence the position of the men at that time-that they were short of money, and were in the habit of going to Lake Rowan and other places?- I do not know exactly about Lake Rowan.

941 You said about that time?- Yes, from the time I went back and resumed work again, I found it was no use my continuing going on with the prospect of being withdrawn at the end of the month. You cannot command information, of course, in police matters; you must wait until it comes in to you. I telegraphed to Captain Standish about the middle-the 20th-of May, stating that I would be down the following day, and asking if he would be good enough to obtain me another interview with the Chief Secretary. Captain Standish spoke in his evidence as if there was only one interview; there were two interviews. I followed my telegram the next morning, and presented myself at Captain Standish's office. On meeting him I was polite, as usual, and he to me. He said, "Ah, Nicolson, I was dining at the Governor's last night, and I saw the Chief Secretary, and he does not think there is any occasion to have any further interview with you." I replied, "Do you then tell me that you are unable to obtain an interview for me with the Honorable the Chief Secretary?" He said, "Yes." So I took leave of him. I left his room, and I went down to Mr. Ramsay's private office, and had an interview with him; it lasted about half an hour.

942 That was on the 20th?- On or about the 20th of May. ..

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