Royal Commission report day 4 page 4

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The Royal Commission evidence for 29/3/1881

(full text transcription)

(see also introduction to day 4)

Assistant Commissioner Nicholson giving evidence

952 You showed that letter Mr. Ramsay?- I showed that letter to Mr. Ramsay, and I should here state that I did not show it to Captain Standish. In my previous interview with him, when he told me he could not get an interview with Mr. Ramsay, my interview ended, and I left the room and went out to Mr. Ramsay. On the previous visit to Melbourne I spoke of, before Captain Standish insinuated the; I had remained in town all day on the occasion of my first visit to Mr. Ramsay in April, Captain Standish makes a mistake; he speaks of only one interview, whereas there were two. On that occasion Captain Standish

953 On what date?- In April. He wrote to me, saying something to the effect, "You did not go away," and he has spoken here of his sending a messenger to the railway station to see me off or to give me some message, and I was not to be found, insinuating that I did not go off with the train. Now Captain Standish knows very well, for I wrote it to him, that I went out that day from town to Flemington. I had to see some friends there, and I took the train from there instead of Spencer street, and I went back the same train, and I wrote to Captain Standish telling him, so that I did go by that train.

954 This is what he did say:- "Mr. Nicolson came down to my office afterwards, when I asked him, 'When are you going back ?' He said, 'I am going back by the next train-the afternoon train.' He not only did not do that, but he remained in Melbourne, and went to Sir James McCulloch to ask him to go and see Mr. Ramsay and intercede on his behalf"?- That was on the last occasion.

955 Early in May?- Yes. I returned by the train I mentioned to you from Flemington. I may mention there is a significance in my calling upon Sir James McCulloch at that time. Sir James McCulloch was in office at the time Power, the bushranger, was arrested. At that time he (then Mr. McCulloch) expressed himself very handsomely as Chief Secretary about my conduct in the arrest of Power.

956 May I ask is there a complete file of the particulars connected with the arrest of Power in the department?- There is. I should be very glad, with reference to that, if one or two members of the Commission would go over that file. Sir James McCulloch kind expressed himself in that way years before, and though I never sought for influence or went to any person-but on that occasion I thought the hest thing I could do was to go to Sir James McCulloch, and mention to him the position I was in, and remind him of the opinion he had expressed of me when he v as in office, and to speak to Mr. Ramsay.

957 When was that-the Tuesday following the Monday you saw Mr. Ramsay in the morning?- The 21st May. That was the second occasion.

958 Although you knew Sir James McCulloch, what was the necessity of your asking him to accompany you to Mr. Ramsay's private office?- Sir James McCulloch had the experience before him of the Power case. He was in office at that time, and he had, as I have already said, been very complimentary to me on the occasion of the capture of Power. He had learned when he was in office what sort of work it was. He did not accompany me to Mr. Ramsay's office.

959 Did you think if he saw Mr. Ramsay he might influence him?- I did.

960 Now will you tell us by what train you left Melbourne after interviewing Mr. Ramsay on the last occasion?- On the following day.

961 That would be the 22nd of May?- Yes, the 22nd of May, by the half past two train. On that occasion I did not go this telegram had not come, but after leaving Sir James McCulloch. I did not leave town that night. I wished, if possible, to get some definite answer or information before I started as to whether I was to remain. It seemed very little use my going back, but I was determined to go back, but it was important to have a definite answer before I went up.

962 Did you go from Spencer street then?- Yes.

963 The difficulty in this matter appears to me is as to date. Your first interview with Captain Standish was in April, and the second was at the private office in May?- That is it.

964 The first time you went from Flemington and the second from Spencer street?- Yes... .

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