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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence
[[Royal Commission report day 19 page 42|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 19 page 44|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 13/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 13/5/1881|day 19]])
'''[[Kirkham|Const Thomas Kirkham]] '''giving evidence''''''
<span id="rc7066">[[#rc7066|7066]]</span> I think you cast a doubt upon my statement, in reference to taking my men out, and, I considering them sufficient with two white constables. You stated you did not think them, I understood you, good by themselves or reliable unless they had white men with them. Did you ever have any reason to doubt really the courage of my men. Have you ever had any occasion to doubt it?— Well, I suppose I am on my oath and must speak the truth, only on one occasion, and that was at [[Glenrowan|Glenrowan]].
<span id="rc7067">[[#rc7067|7067]]</span> ''By the Commission''— What caused you to doubt it; what action was it?— When those civilians came out in the morning there were two or three or four of them, instead of coming out when; Constable [[Const Wilson|Wilson]] I called them, went to get under the culvert.
<span id="rc7068">[[#rc7068|7068]]</span> That is the [[Police Trackers|trackers]]?— Yes.
<span id="rc7069">[[#rc7069|7069]]</span> ''By Mr. O'Connor''— Went to hide under the culvert. Where was this culvert, please?— Running under the road.
<span id="rc7070">[[#rc7070|7070]]</span> Were you near them?— A little way from them, Wilson and I.
<span id="rc7071">[[#rc7071|7071]]</span> And you both saw them go under the culvert?— Yes.
<span id="rc7072">[[#rc7072|7072]]</span> Did they remain there any length of time?— No.
<span id="rc7073">[[#rc7073|7073]]</span> How long?— I could not say; we asked them to some out, and they said they had no ammunition.
<span id="rc7074">[[#rc7074|7074]]</span> Which men?— I could not say; and I told them to come out and show their empty rifles, whether they had any ammunition or not.
<span id="rc7075">[[#rc7075|7075]]</span> You never mentioned that to me during the whole day?— No. You just now asked me to give an instance.
<span id="rc7076">[[#rc7076|7076]]</span> That is the first time you ever had any occasion to doubt the courage o£ the men?— The first and only one.
<span id="rc7077">[[#rc7077|7077]]</span> We had been out before on tracks that we thought were the outlaws' tracks, our first and second trip—were you with the men at that time?— No, I was in Beechworth with Mr. Hare, in the cave party, behind [[Mrs Margaret Byrne|Mrs. Byrne]]'s house.
<span id="rc7078">[[#rc7078|7078]]</span> ''By the Commission''— I suppose you understand that they fired away as long as they had ammunition?— I think they did.
<span id="rc7079">[[#rc7079|7079]]</span> ''By Mr. O'Connor''— Did you notice anybody else show what you might consider cowardice at Glenrowan?— I do not know that I did.
<span id="rc7080">[[#rc7080|7080]]</span> Can you say decidedly?— I did not see anybody.
<span id="rc7081">[[#rc7081|7081]]</span> In your opinion do you consider I had a good position in the front of the house?— Yes, I do.
<span id="rc7082">[[#rc7082|7082]]</span> ''By the Commission''— In what sense do you mean the word “good”?— A safe position.
''Mr. O'Connor'' — No, I refer to the outlaws.
<span id="rc7083">[[#rc7083|7083]]</span> ''By the Commission''— How far from the house?— Thirty or forty yards.
<span id="rc7084">[[#rc7084|7084]]</span> You are on your oath, and will you now say what you mean by a safe position—tell us really what you mean?— I meal; he had a safe position; unless he stood up right in that hole he would not show his head above —it was a safe position.
<span id="rc7085">[[#rc7085|7085]]</span> ''By Mr. O'Connor''— That was not an answer to my question—my question was, was it not a good position to do the work we were supposed to be doing, endeavoring to arrest the outlaws and prevent them escaping till we got more assistance; was that not what we were doing?— Yes.
<span id="rc7086">[[#rc7086|7086]]</span> Was not that position a good one for that?— Yes, for the command of the front of the house.
<span id="rc7087">[[#rc7087|7087]]</span> ''By Mr. [[Hare|Hare]]'' — How far was I from the house when I was shot—about?— I have not taken any notice of the ground, but I should say about thirty yards.
<span id="rc7088">[[#rc7088|7088]]</span> Who was nearest to me when I was shot?— That I could not say.
<span id="rc7089">[[#rc7089|7089]]</span> Who was up near me; what persons did you see near me when I was shot; whom do you remember seeing there?— Kenny and Barry.
<span id="rc7090">[[#rc7090|7090]]</span> Were you near me—How far were you from me when I was shot?— Ten or twelve yards.
<span id="rc7091">[[#rc7091|7091]]</span> Behind or in front?— Behind you.
<span id="rc7092">[[#rc7092|7092]]</span> Did you see Mr. O'Connor when I was shot?— No, I did not.
<span id="rc7093">[[#rc7093|7093]]</span> You say you saw him leave the railway station and follow me, did he go up to the house with me?— When you and he left the station together, I ran behind him, and, as far back as I can remember, I think you were very soon twenty yards in advance of him.
<span id="rc7094">[[#rc7094|7094]]</span> Where did he go?— I do not know. I never saw him after. I cannot say.
<span id="rc7095">[[#rc7095|7095]]</span> Did he go up to the house with me?— I did not see him.....
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[[Royal Commission report day 19 page 42|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 19 page 44|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 13/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 13/5/1881|day 19]])
'''[[Kirkham|Const Thomas Kirkham]] '''giving evidence''''''
<span id="rc7066">[[#rc7066|7066]]</span> I think you cast a doubt upon my statement, in reference to taking my men out, and, I considering them sufficient with two white constables. You stated you did not think them, I understood you, good by themselves or reliable unless they had white men with them. Did you ever have any reason to doubt really the courage of my men. Have you ever had any occasion to doubt it?— Well, I suppose I am on my oath and must speak the truth, only on one occasion, and that was at [[Glenrowan|Glenrowan]].
<span id="rc7067">[[#rc7067|7067]]</span> ''By the Commission''— What caused you to doubt it; what action was it?— When those civilians came out in the morning there were two or three or four of them, instead of coming out when; Constable [[Const Wilson|Wilson]] I called them, went to get under the culvert.
<span id="rc7068">[[#rc7068|7068]]</span> That is the [[Police Trackers|trackers]]?— Yes.
<span id="rc7069">[[#rc7069|7069]]</span> ''By Mr. O'Connor''— Went to hide under the culvert. Where was this culvert, please?— Running under the road.
<span id="rc7070">[[#rc7070|7070]]</span> Were you near them?— A little way from them, Wilson and I.
<span id="rc7071">[[#rc7071|7071]]</span> And you both saw them go under the culvert?— Yes.
<span id="rc7072">[[#rc7072|7072]]</span> Did they remain there any length of time?— No.
<span id="rc7073">[[#rc7073|7073]]</span> How long?— I could not say; we asked them to some out, and they said they had no ammunition.
<span id="rc7074">[[#rc7074|7074]]</span> Which men?— I could not say; and I told them to come out and show their empty rifles, whether they had any ammunition or not.
<span id="rc7075">[[#rc7075|7075]]</span> You never mentioned that to me during the whole day?— No. You just now asked me to give an instance.
<span id="rc7076">[[#rc7076|7076]]</span> That is the first time you ever had any occasion to doubt the courage o£ the men?— The first and only one.
<span id="rc7077">[[#rc7077|7077]]</span> We had been out before on tracks that we thought were the outlaws' tracks, our first and second trip—were you with the men at that time?— No, I was in Beechworth with Mr. Hare, in the cave party, behind [[Mrs Margaret Byrne|Mrs. Byrne]]'s house.
<span id="rc7078">[[#rc7078|7078]]</span> ''By the Commission''— I suppose you understand that they fired away as long as they had ammunition?— I think they did.
<span id="rc7079">[[#rc7079|7079]]</span> ''By Mr. O'Connor''— Did you notice anybody else show what you might consider cowardice at Glenrowan?— I do not know that I did.
<span id="rc7080">[[#rc7080|7080]]</span> Can you say decidedly?— I did not see anybody.
<span id="rc7081">[[#rc7081|7081]]</span> In your opinion do you consider I had a good position in the front of the house?— Yes, I do.
<span id="rc7082">[[#rc7082|7082]]</span> ''By the Commission''— In what sense do you mean the word “good”?— A safe position.
''Mr. O'Connor'' — No, I refer to the outlaws.
<span id="rc7083">[[#rc7083|7083]]</span> ''By the Commission''— How far from the house?— Thirty or forty yards.
<span id="rc7084">[[#rc7084|7084]]</span> You are on your oath, and will you now say what you mean by a safe position—tell us really what you mean?— I meal; he had a safe position; unless he stood up right in that hole he would not show his head above —it was a safe position.
<span id="rc7085">[[#rc7085|7085]]</span> ''By Mr. O'Connor''— That was not an answer to my question—my question was, was it not a good position to do the work we were supposed to be doing, endeavoring to arrest the outlaws and prevent them escaping till we got more assistance; was that not what we were doing?— Yes.
<span id="rc7086">[[#rc7086|7086]]</span> Was not that position a good one for that?— Yes, for the command of the front of the house.
<span id="rc7087">[[#rc7087|7087]]</span> ''By Mr. [[Hare|Hare]]'' — How far was I from the house when I was shot—about?— I have not taken any notice of the ground, but I should say about thirty yards.
<span id="rc7088">[[#rc7088|7088]]</span> Who was nearest to me when I was shot?— That I could not say.
<span id="rc7089">[[#rc7089|7089]]</span> Who was up near me; what persons did you see near me when I was shot; whom do you remember seeing there?— Kenny and Barry.
<span id="rc7090">[[#rc7090|7090]]</span> Were you near me—How far were you from me when I was shot?— Ten or twelve yards.
<span id="rc7091">[[#rc7091|7091]]</span> Behind or in front?— Behind you.
<span id="rc7092">[[#rc7092|7092]]</span> Did you see Mr. O'Connor when I was shot?— No, I did not.
<span id="rc7093">[[#rc7093|7093]]</span> You say you saw him leave the railway station and follow me, did he go up to the house with me?— When you and he left the station together, I ran behind him, and, as far back as I can remember, I think you were very soon twenty yards in advance of him.
<span id="rc7094">[[#rc7094|7094]]</span> Where did he go?— I do not know. I never saw him after. I cannot say.
<span id="rc7095">[[#rc7095|7095]]</span> Did he go up to the house with me?— I did not see him.....
=== Previous page / Next page ===
<br />
{{MicroficheCopy}}<br />
'''The [[Royal Commission report day 18 page 1|previous day]] / [[Royal Commission report day 20 page 1|next day]] . . . Royal Commission [[Royal Commission Index|index]]'''
[[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:July 1513]] [[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:Commisioner Standish]] [[Category:history]]
MediaWiki:Sidebar
{{^|Original page location \documents\RoyalCommission\RC810513_19_43_7066.html}}
