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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence
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== The Royal Commission evidence for 13/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 13/5/1881|day 19]])
'''Sgt [[Whelan|Whelan]]''' '''giving evidence'''
6393 How did you know [[Joe Byrne|Byrne]] was shot?— The parties who came out stated so.
<span id="rc6394">[[#rc6394|6394]]</span> You were continually firing on the house, I believe, after Ned Kelly was captured?— Yes; but, as I mentioned to you, the firing was high.
<span id="rc6395">[[#rc6395|6395]]</span> There were no instructions beyond that, by any officer to the men, us to how they were to proceed?— There might have been at the other end; I do not think it.
<span id="rc6396">[[#rc6396|6396]]</span> To your knowledge, were any arrangements made to have a medical man on the ground, in ease of his services being required?— Mr. Sadleir detained the train to get [[Nicholson|Dr. Nicholson]], who was attending Mr. Hare, so as to have him on the spot. He dressed his wound here, and came with us, and attended Ned Kelly, and was there to attend any one wounded.
6397 Would he have attended any of the police who might have been shot?— He came for that purpose.
<span id="rc6398">[[#rc6398|6398]]</span> Did you hear any man offer to go to the hotel in [[Kelly's Armour|Kelly's armour]] before the place was set on fire?— I did not, but it might have occurred without my knowing.
6399 Did you hear of any civilians offering to go and storm the place?— No.
<span id="rc6400">[[#rc6400|6400]]</span> Do you know a Frenchman named [[Jones' Glenrowan Inn|Amidie]]?— Yes.
<span id="rc6401">[[#rc6401|6401]]</span> Did you hear that he offered to go and storm the house?— This is the first time I have heard
<span id="rc6402">[[#rc6402|6402]]</span> Were you perplexed in any way in capturing the outlaws, by your superior officers?— Not at all. It was reported in the papers outside that we were hampered—such was not the case. When the men went out they had perfect liberty, if they had anything valuable, to follow it up; but to communicate, if possible, with their officers, with some one who would bring them in, but to follow up the scent of any information they got. Both from Mr. Sadleir, Mr. Hare, and Mr. Nicolson they had that.
<span id="rc6403">[[#rc6403|6403]]</span> Do you think, from your knowledge of the district, there are any fears of an outbreak from any associates of the gang?— I would respectfully beg not to answer that, if not forced. I will give any information as to the past, but I would respectfully ask not to give any opinion as to the future, as I think it would interfere with the public interests. I shall be very happy to give it to the Chairman of the Commission privately
<span id="rc6404">[[#rc6404|6404]]</span> What is your opinion of the services of the [[Police Trackers|black trackers]] in their special calling?— I think they are very good, but I think so many as six should not be sent together, as six horses have to go, and at least two pack-horses—that makes eight; and a constable in charge, a white man—that makes nine. Well, if they came up with any offender, there is only one man to fight—we cannot trust much to the trackers to fight—there is only one man to fight, and nine horses, which make a great noise and bulk in the bush; so I think two or three at any time is sufficient to go out.
6405 Still you think their services are useful?— Yes.
<span id="rc6406">[[#rc6406|6406]]</span> Can you assign any particular instance of their ability?— I can. They have in the late murder case at Wunghnu. They have tracked there, and I believe it is from their tracking there was circumstantial evidence—there was no positive proof of the murder—but sufficient evidence was got up, and the man was convicted and sentenced to death the other day at Beechworth.
<span id="rc6407">[[#rc6407|6407]]</span> Who was in charge then of the black trackers?— Constable [[Kirkham|Kirkham]], and Sub-Inspector [[Sup Henry Baber|Baber]] was out taking charge of the case.
<span id="rc6408">[[#rc6408|6408]]</span> Do you remember any case where Mr. [[O'Connor|O'Connor]] was in charge?— Mr. Sadleir was with them, I was not, and I heard Mr. Sadleir speaking very highly of Mr. O'Connor's “boys.”
<span id="rc6409">[[#rc6409|6409]]</span> You remember the instance of Mr. Little losing the watch?— I remember, at the Agricultural Show, in the mud and in the wet, a pin was lost, and some three or four days afterwards he or some one came and got the services of the black trackers, and they found the pin. There was another case at [[Violet Town|Violet Town]] , where they tracked a man from the station-master's garden up to his house.
6410 Is that your present trackers?— Yes; and there was a case at [[Shepparton|Shepparton]] also.
6411 You do not remember this instance of the watch ?— I think it was a pin.
<span id="rc6412">[[#rc6412|6412]]</span> You are speaking of another instance at the station-master's house?— Up to his own house, and the man was convicted. Constables Kirkham and Johnson, I believe, arrested him.
6413 You are speaking of the present party altogether?— Yes.
6414 You do not say anything with reference to the old party?— No; Mr. Sadleir was generally with them; I had nothing to do with them.....
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[[Royal Commission report day 19 page 19|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 19 page 21|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 13/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 13/5/1881|day 19]])
'''Sgt [[Whelan|Whelan]]''' '''giving evidence'''
6393 How did you know [[Joe Byrne|Byrne]] was shot?— The parties who came out stated so.
<span id="rc6394">[[#rc6394|6394]]</span> You were continually firing on the house, I believe, after Ned Kelly was captured?— Yes; but, as I mentioned to you, the firing was high.
<span id="rc6395">[[#rc6395|6395]]</span> There were no instructions beyond that, by any officer to the men, us to how they were to proceed?— There might have been at the other end; I do not think it.
<span id="rc6396">[[#rc6396|6396]]</span> To your knowledge, were any arrangements made to have a medical man on the ground, in ease of his services being required?— Mr. Sadleir detained the train to get [[Nicholson|Dr. Nicholson]], who was attending Mr. Hare, so as to have him on the spot. He dressed his wound here, and came with us, and attended Ned Kelly, and was there to attend any one wounded.
6397 Would he have attended any of the police who might have been shot?— He came for that purpose.
<span id="rc6398">[[#rc6398|6398]]</span> Did you hear any man offer to go to the hotel in [[Kelly's Armour|Kelly's armour]] before the place was set on fire?— I did not, but it might have occurred without my knowing.
6399 Did you hear of any civilians offering to go and storm the place?— No.
<span id="rc6400">[[#rc6400|6400]]</span> Do you know a Frenchman named [[Jones' Glenrowan Inn|Amidie]]?— Yes.
<span id="rc6401">[[#rc6401|6401]]</span> Did you hear that he offered to go and storm the house?— This is the first time I have heard
<span id="rc6402">[[#rc6402|6402]]</span> Were you perplexed in any way in capturing the outlaws, by your superior officers?— Not at all. It was reported in the papers outside that we were hampered—such was not the case. When the men went out they had perfect liberty, if they had anything valuable, to follow it up; but to communicate, if possible, with their officers, with some one who would bring them in, but to follow up the scent of any information they got. Both from Mr. Sadleir, Mr. Hare, and Mr. Nicolson they had that.
<span id="rc6403">[[#rc6403|6403]]</span> Do you think, from your knowledge of the district, there are any fears of an outbreak from any associates of the gang?— I would respectfully beg not to answer that, if not forced. I will give any information as to the past, but I would respectfully ask not to give any opinion as to the future, as I think it would interfere with the public interests. I shall be very happy to give it to the Chairman of the Commission privately
<span id="rc6404">[[#rc6404|6404]]</span> What is your opinion of the services of the [[Police Trackers|black trackers]] in their special calling?— I think they are very good, but I think so many as six should not be sent together, as six horses have to go, and at least two pack-horses—that makes eight; and a constable in charge, a white man—that makes nine. Well, if they came up with any offender, there is only one man to fight—we cannot trust much to the trackers to fight—there is only one man to fight, and nine horses, which make a great noise and bulk in the bush; so I think two or three at any time is sufficient to go out.
6405 Still you think their services are useful?— Yes.
<span id="rc6406">[[#rc6406|6406]]</span> Can you assign any particular instance of their ability?— I can. They have in the late murder case at Wunghnu. They have tracked there, and I believe it is from their tracking there was circumstantial evidence—there was no positive proof of the murder—but sufficient evidence was got up, and the man was convicted and sentenced to death the other day at Beechworth.
<span id="rc6407">[[#rc6407|6407]]</span> Who was in charge then of the black trackers?— Constable [[Kirkham|Kirkham]], and Sub-Inspector [[Sup Henry Baber|Baber]] was out taking charge of the case.
<span id="rc6408">[[#rc6408|6408]]</span> Do you remember any case where Mr. [[O'Connor|O'Connor]] was in charge?— Mr. Sadleir was with them, I was not, and I heard Mr. Sadleir speaking very highly of Mr. O'Connor's “boys.”
<span id="rc6409">[[#rc6409|6409]]</span> You remember the instance of Mr. Little losing the watch?— I remember, at the Agricultural Show, in the mud and in the wet, a pin was lost, and some three or four days afterwards he or some one came and got the services of the black trackers, and they found the pin. There was another case at [[Violet Town|Violet Town]] , where they tracked a man from the station-master's garden up to his house.
6410 Is that your present trackers?— Yes; and there was a case at [[Shepparton|Shepparton]] also.
6411 You do not remember this instance of the watch ?— I think it was a pin.
<span id="rc6412">[[#rc6412|6412]]</span> You are speaking of another instance at the station-master's house?— Up to his own house, and the man was convicted. Constables Kirkham and Johnson, I believe, arrested him.
6413 You are speaking of the present party altogether?— Yes.
6414 You do not say anything with reference to the old party?— No; Mr. Sadleir was generally with them; I had nothing to do with them.....
=== Previous page / Next page ===
<br />
{{MicroficheCopy}}<br />
'''The [[Royal Commission report day 18 page 1|previous day]] / [[Royal Commission report day 20 page 1|next day]] . . . Royal Commission [[Royal Commission Index|index]]'''
[[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:July 1513]] [[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:Commisioner Standish]] [[Category:history]]
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