Royal Commission report day 19 page 52
The Royal Commission evidence for 13/5/1881
(see also introduction to day 19)
'SConst Charles Johnston giving evidence'
7316 You would have taken them from Sergeant Whelan?— In the absence of Mr. Sadleir.
7317 Or Senior-Constable Kelly?— Yes; he was senior to me.
7318 By Mr. Sadleir— Sergeant Steele was there?— Yes, but I did not see him.
7319 By the Commission— We understand that had you gone there, and Mr. Sadleir not come up you would have looked to the inferior officers of the Victorian police as your superiors in command?— Yes, and would have taken any order from them.
7320 After eight months' thought over the matter, although at that time you did not know that the two outlaws inside the hotel were in armour or out of armour, suffering from drink, or otherwise, still at that time, on the spur of the moment, you proposed to rush the hotel in preference to setting fire to it?— Yes.
7321 You had not got eight months to arrive at that conclusion?— No.
7322 You say that there was another constable besides yourself who saw some one come out at the back door?— Constable Wilson.
7323 Any other?— I do not know. Wilson and I were together at one tree.
7324 This was after the last shot was fired?— After the last two shots were fired, about one o'clock .
7325 Were the shots fired out of the back window or not?— I could not say, but they were fired from the house.
7326 Did you see the flash or the smoke?— From the report; and, I came to the conclusion, I am satisfied it was from the building, because there were none of the police about the house to fire so close that you would take it to be one of the police firing.
7327 When you went round, what distance were the men apart surrounding the house?— There might be some of them five yards apart, and then perhaps ten yards; at another tree, where there would be one or two more.
7328 Then some of those other constables might have seen those men come to the door as well as yourself?— They might have.
7329 By Mr. Sadleir— When you went up to the building did you think it child's play to fire it?— I did not, indeed.
7330 Do you not think it would have been more dangerous to have sent four or five men down the passage of the hotel to look for the outlaws than to fire it?— Well, yes, there would be more risk going into the rooms than there would be walling up to the building to fire it.
7331 Considering you were covered by the firing party?— Yes.
7332 Would it not be still more risky if you did not know what part of the house they were in?— I did not know what room they were in. I was given to understand they were in the front of building.
7333 Who knew that?— I was given to understand that.
7334 Could any person know that?— I believe they were there when the prisoners came out, and by seeing one of them at the back my impression was he was in the front building.
7335 I am not speaking of the front building, but could you tell what part of that five-roomed house they were in?— No.
7336 Will you just imagine for a moment—suppose I had sent five constables down the passage— they could not fire while they went to rush the house?— They could not tell which room they would be in.
7337 Could the covering party help them outside?— No.
7338 Suppose you put your head into a room, you would have to look round to gee if there was an outlaw waiting to shoot you?— Undoubtedly.
7339 And into the other rooms to look?— Except you sent four in at the front and four at the back.
7340 Suppose, under the circumstances you say of sending four in at the front and four at the back, what would their position be if they had to come to fire; would they not shoot each other?— Well, they might.
7341 Could they avoid it if they came to fire and they came into the passage at the two different doors; if they fired, must they not shoot each other?— Except they pounced on the outlaws at once when they got their eyes on them.
7342 But they might have to search four rooms first?— By-the-bye, I said four in the front and four at the back; two could go to each room, and I know two of the men would be good enough for two of the outlaws.
7343 By the Commission— Was it not broad daylight?— Yes.
7344 And the windows open?— Yes.
7345 By Mr. Sadleir— Suppose I had sent the four in, and the outlaws dropped a couple and wounded one or two of the others, and those who were able to retire had to retire, what would our position be then outside?— I do not know what you could do.
7346 Would not the end of that business be worse than the first?— Yes.
7347 Our hands tied for firing?— Yes, some of our comrades being in it.
7348 Dead or dying?— Yes.
7349 That would have to be repeated—send four more men in?— Yes.
7350 Suppose the same happened to them, would not the position be still worse?— Yes.....
Previous page / Next page
| ! | The text has been retyped from a microfiche copy of the original. We have taken care to reproduce this document but areas of the original text may been damaged. |
The previous day / next day . . . Royal Commission index
