Royal Commission report day 50 page 4

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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission Report

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The Royal Commission evidence for 7/9/1881

(full text transcription)

(see also introduction to day 50)

[[../../people/peN_P/nicolsonPAC.html|Ass Com Charles Hope Nicolson]] giving evidence

16863 Was that Renwick?— Yes, Renwick, and yet Mr Hare has implied in his letter that it was I who prevented this man from speaking to him. I now wish to hand in an affidavit from this man. [ The same was read, and is as follows:-” I, Lawrence Kirwan, of Carboar, near Oxley, farmer, make oath and say:-

1 . That in April 1879 I was employed by Mr Hare as a scout and guide to assist the police in the pursuit of the Kellys , at the rate of one pound per day.

2 . That I acted as scout or guide for different parties of police for thirteen days, and received in payment therefor the sum of thirteen pounds.

3 . That I was then instructed by Mr Sadleir to go out and seek information of the gang, and acting on those instructions I went from Benalla round Mount Emu and Dondongadale River, where I met Mr Furnell and party, thence back to Carboar, and then up the Mitta River to Beechworth, where I met Detective Ward, who approved of what I was doing. I went next to the Little River, and then on to the Upper Murray by way of Cotton-tree Hill, but found no traces, and returned to Benalla and reported where I had been, and that I had found no trace of the gang.

4 . That when I sent in a claim for payment for the time I was out seeking information, Mr Sadleir declined to pay me, as he said he did not know I was out; and I was left by this decision without a shilling, and had to borrow ten shillings to take me home.

5 . In September or October 1879 I got a written message from Mr Assistant Commissioner Nicolson to meet him at Wangaratta. I went in on a Monday to Wangaratta and saw Mr. Nicolson , who asked me to go out and seek traces of the gang. I refused to go on the ground that I had a claim against Mr Hare and Mr Sadleir for services which they declined to recognise. Mr Nicolson pressed me to go out, but I several times refused to go. I explained to Mr Nicolson my claim, and he said he would do his best to got the amount for me. Mr Nicolson said he had heard of the disputed claim at Benalla, and that he knew he would be handicapped over it. I understood that Mr Nicolson meant that this disputed claim would prevent my working for him. I afterwards saw Mr Nicolson ; three days after I agreed to go out under him. I went out alone on the following day. I was out four days on the King River . I went out with specific instructions to see if there were camps or traces of camps in certain localities on the river. I found no traces. I found an old saddle which afterwards proved to be one of the saddles belonging to the police murdered on the Wombat. There were floods in the King River which interfered with the search I was directed to make. I returned to Wangaratta and saw Mr Nicolson and reported to him.

6 . That I remained in Mr Nicolson 's service until the first day of June 1880. That I was paid for all the time I was working for him; I was paid all the time I was out, whether I got information or not. I never had any dispute with Mr Nicolson . I was paid by Mr Nicolson the sum of twenty-six pounds fifteen shillings. When not employed by Mr Nicolson I was idle, so that I received only twenty-six pounds fifteen shillings for twenty-seven weeks.

7 . That when Mr Nicolson was leaving the district I saw him near Beechworth; he told me he was about to leave and paid me three pounds which was due to me. He told me that Mr Hare was coming to take charge and that he ( Mr Nicolson ) would like me to go on working for him. I told Mr Nicolson I did not think I would, and added that if he was going to leave I would knock off working. Mr Nicolson pressed me to stay on; and I at last said I would go down to Benalla and see Mr. Hare on the subject.

8 . That what I said might have led Mr Nicolson to believe that I intended to go on working for Mr Hare .

9 . That Mr Nicolson could not have said more than he did to induce me to remain working for Mr Hare . I did not mention my claim to Mr Nicolson on this occasion.

10 . I never spoke to Mr. Nicolson again until August 1880.

11 . I went to Benalla and saw Mr Hare. He asked me to work for him. He said, ‘'I want you to keep on working for me the same as you have been doing for Mr Nicolson, as you know the locality and the whole affair.” I said I wanted my disputed claim paid before I will do any more work. He said, ‘I can't help that; it has nothing to do with me.’ I said that ‘I have asked Mr Sadleir and he gives me the same reply, and if that was the way of it I was quite full of it, and that I would work no more,’ I went home by train.

12 . That I met Detective Ward afterwards, and he told me that when Mr Hare complained to him of my refusal to work that he (Ward) said I had a disputed claim with the department for work performed, and that Mr Hare had said in reply, ‘If Kirwan had told me that I would have made it all right.’

13 . That from the information I was supplying and from the movements of the gang and police I am sure that Mr Nicolson and his party must have encountered the gang within a few days of the time Mr Nicolson was removed; an encounter could not have been postponed for ten days, and might have occurred in four or five. –

Lawrence Kirwan. Sworn at Wangaratta, in the colony of Victoria ' this fifth day of September, One thousand eight hundred and eighty-one, before me, Fred . J M Marsden, a Commissioner of the Supreme Court of the Colony of Victoria for taking affidavits.” (JJK)

As to the telegram dated the 2nd day of June 1880, which I sent to Senior-Constable Mullane, and to which so much importance has been attached, my explanation is very simple. I will first read the telegram itself, and then the evidence given by Senior-Constable Mullane with respect to it to this Commission at Beechworth, on the 20th day of July 1881. The telegram is as follows:-“Send Constable Armstrong back to his station, withdraw the watch party, send them back to duty. No more money for ' Tommy ' and his friends.” [ The witness then read Senior-Constable Mullane's evidence from question No. 13677 to question No. 13694.] It will be seen that the telegram is only a repetition of the orders I sent Mullane by Aaron Sherritt on the day before, and which I delivered personally to Ward on the 28th or 29th day of May previously. On perusal of the telegram it will be seen that it contains no word about discharge, and was sent merely as an excess of caution to see that the necessary orders which I had previously given some days before, were carried out. I must repeat that, days before this, on the Monday night previous to Mr Hare arriving, I sent in Ward to withdraw that search party. That search party had only been placed there, while I brought the trackers up to Beechworth, simply to watch Mrs Byrne's, to ascertain if the report of the outlaw Byrne and the dog having been seen behind a rock near Mrs Byrne's house was true or not; and then when this duty was performed the necessity for those men being there ceased, and I sent word to them to withdraw.....

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