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Royal Commission report day 19 page 51

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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence

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== The Royal Commission evidence for 13/5/1881 ==

''''''

=== full text ===

(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 13/5/1881|day 19]])

'''SConst Charles [[Johnston|Johnston]] '''giving evidence''''''

[[#rc7295|7295]] That was about a quarter to half-past eleven?— Between half-past eleven and twelve.

[[#rc7296|7296]] Then the impression you derived was that the others were enclosed in similar armour?— I was told they were.

[[#rc7297|7297]] Was your impulse at that particular period to rush the building as being the best method?— No, I did not come to any conclusion about rushing the building until I saw the position.

[[#rc7298|7298]] Do you now think it would have been attended with less danger, and the whole proceeding consummated better by rushing the building?

''Mr.[[Sadleir|Sadleir]]'' — I had no time to think; he has had eight months to think.

''The Chairman'' — The object of the Commission is to know whether everything was done at the time.

''Mr. Sadleir'' — Under the circumstances at the time, this is quite another thing.

''The Chairman'' — No; the witness says he was prepared to rush the building at the time.

[[#rc7299|7299]] ''By the Commission (to the witness)''— Did you consider that at the time?— No, not at the time, for I had come to this conclusion afterwards that it would be safer to rush with the armour on than without.

''Mr. Sadleir'' — That is my impression too

''The Witness'' — That if the outlaws were free from drink they could have shot several of the police; had they not the armour on they could have shot several of the police.

[[#rc7300|7300]] Even as it was?— As it was.

[[#rc7301|7301]] Do you think the safety of the police, as we may put it, lay in the fact that the men were drunk and had armour on ?— Well, I could not form an opinion on them

[[#rc7302|7 302]] Was there any portion of the person of any policeman exposed when he was firing?— Yes. If you are standing against a tree some portion of you must, in taking aim, be exposed.

[[#rc7303|7303]] One-half exposed?— Yes.

[[#rc7304|7304]] Do you think that had you been in the position of those men in the house, with the windows and doors open to fire from, you could have shot some of those men who were not under cover?— I am satisfied I could.

[[#rc7305|7305]] ''By Mr. Sadleir''— If you were in armour?— No.

[[#rc7306|7306]] ''By the Commission'' — What I want to ask you now is this: had you been in that house beleaguered by the police, and had the same opportunities that those three men had that were in the house could you not have shot several of those outside?— I could.

[[#rc7307|7307]] Then your opinion at the present moment is that it was the armour and drink that saved the police?— [[Kelly's Armour|armour]], I believe, was the cause of assisting the police to a great extent.

[[#rc7308|7308]] Do you not think that drink was another cause?— I think when they had access to drink they would indulge in it very freely.

[[#rc7309|7309]] Of course it is not evidence that you can swear to, but did you hear at the time whether those men were under the influence of drink or not from any prisoner?— I did not see any of the prisoners; they were all out before I got there.

[[#rc7310|7310]] Did you hear anything during the next two or three days?— I was told they were drinking but that was from some of my own comrades—that the prisoners who got out said they were drinking very freely.

[[#rc7311|7311]] Is it your opinion now that drink was to a very great extent the cause of their being in trouble in the way they were?— Well, from what I have heard of them, I think that where the drink was so plentiful about them that they would be likely to take advantage of it.

[[#rc7312|7312]] With regard to the position you took there, suppose Mr. Sadleir had been away at the time to whom would you have looked for the command as to the course you should take?— The second officer.

[[#rc7313|7313]] Who would be the second officer?— I believe Sergeant Whelan was on the ground. I did not see him.

[[#rc7314|7314]] Did you look upon Mr. O'Connor as properly constituted as a sub-inspector to give orders at this time?— I think I would not.

[[#rc7315|7315]] Would any of the men?— I do not know what any of the men would do, but I never did consider him an officer of the Victorian police.....

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