The Argus at KellyGang 21/10/1881 (2)
Sir JOHN O'SHANASSY.-This is not Parliamentary business.
Sir CHARLES MACMAHON.-Certainly not. The hon. member was not referred to as a member of Parliament, but as a member of a commission, and what have we to do with that?
Sir JOHN O'SHANASSY.-What hon. members have to say on these benches in private conversation is not a parliamentary matter. If a member is assaulted, it would be come a parliamentary matter, but I maintain that to discuss this does not come within our province.
The SPEAKER.-I think the House can decide the point. If an hon. member considers himself personally insulted, I think he has a right to bring it before the House. At the same time if hon. members choose to indulge in private conversation, it is scarcely fair to the House for one to call the attention of the Speaker to what another said; but I understand the hon. member for Ballarat West to say that is this matter he was addressed by the hon. member for West Melbourne . My own opinion is, without venturing any unnecessary suggestion, that the hon. member who made the remark should say that he meant no personal offence to the hon. member. (Hear, hear.)
Sir BRYAN O'LOGHLEN.-I am sure the hon. member for West Melbourne will any that he meant no personal offence to the hon. member. I think it is plain to the House that the observation of the hon. member was a jocular remark, and all know that many remarks are made by members through their being accustomed to meet one another, which are not intended seriously, and which, if taken seriously, would lead to a great number of unpleasant scenes. I venture to think that the hon., member for West Melbourne never meant anything offensive to the hon. member for Ballarat West, and that what he said was a mere jocular remark.
Mr FINCHAM.-I gave him an opportunity of saying so.
Sir BRYAN O'LOGHLEN.-From what I know of the hon. member, I am sure it was not his intention to insult the hon. member.
Major SMITH.-I certainly think that members should be protected in the precincts of the House, and if one hon. member
addressed an offensive observation to another, the least thing he can do, if he be a gentleman, is to withdraw it I certainly think that we should take care that what- ever action we might take as members on boards of inquiry, or anything else, we should not have such observations addressed to us, and I really hope the hon. member will see that it is only fair to my colleague, that if he addressed tho observation over the heads of gentlemen sitting near them which has been reported, and which was quite un- provoked, he should express his regret, with- draw the words, and say that he never meant any offence.
Sir CHARLES MACMAHON.-The hon. member who has just sat down has thought fit to make use of a remark which I don't exactly understand. He said-" If the hon. member who made this observation was a gentleman, he would withdraw."
Major SMITH.-Well, I say so now.
Sir CHARLES MACMAHON.-The hon. member says so now. Well, to show my opinion of the hon. member's gross expression, I shall not withdraw what I said. I have said before that I didn't make the remark which the hon. member says I did that I asked him how he bad been got at.
Mr FINCHAM.-Yes, you did.
The SPEAKER -Surely it is quite easy for the hon. and gallant gentleman to say that the hon. member is mistaken, and that he meant no offence. (Hear, hear.) I am anxious to preserve the order of the House.
Sir CHARLES MACMAHON.-I am pre- pared to say distinctly that I never made the remark as to the hon. member having been "got at," When the hon. member for the Ovens (Mr Kerferd) made his observations, I said, jocularly, to the hon. member for Ballarat West, "I don't know how you have changed your opinions so suddenly." I meant nothing more than that, as compared with what he had said in conversation, the hon. member had changed his opinions without just cause or reason. But that is a very different state of affairs from what the hon. member for Ballarat West (Major Smith) referred to, when be said that if I were a gentleman I would withdraw.
The SPEAKER.-I think the hon. member for Ballarat West (Major Smith) deserves every credit for defending his colleague, especially under the circumstances of their being in opposition to each other. I don't think he intended to say that the hon. member for West Melbourne was not a gentleman. No one would suppose that for a moment.
Mr FINCHAM.-I have no wish at all to be offensive to any gentleman here, and I certainly shall be the last to take offence without occasion. The hon. member has just said that he did not intend the remark in the sense in which I understood it, and, there- fore, I will permit the matter to drop, and thank my hon. colleague for his action in connexion with it. (Cheers.)
The matter then dropped.
COST OF THE POLICE COMMISSION
Sir CHARLES MACMAHON moved
" That there be laid before this House a return of the cost of the Police Commission, showing in detail the various items, including salary of secretary, shorthand writing, printing, travelling expenses, cost of witnesses, also a return of the salaries of officers suspended from duty, and every other expense whatsoever"
Mr RAMSAY seconded the motion.
Mr JAMES said that he should oppose it
The motion was then removed from the "unopposed list."
end
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