The Argus at KellyGang 28/9/1882 (4)
Royal Commission evidence ExConst Cash
Mr Winch -Would it not in fact be quite a usual thing in the force? Witness -Yes
Mr FINCHAM - But that would be in cases in which there was a definite understanding and concerted action.
Sergeant Dalton examined said that years back he frequently went round town with Mr Winch. They were sometimes accompanied by certain gentlemen.
Mr Winch -Generally visitors from other colonies?
Witness- Yes
Mr Winch - And on one occasion by the Governor.
Witness did not remember that. About five years ago they were on such a round, and heard a disturbance in a house of ill fame and two men went away. Mr Winch and witness stopped to inquire what was the matter. The woman said that two detectives had been there 'for a loaf' and had drunk some ale and porter. Mr Winch and witness entered the house. Wit- ness remained near the door where he could see anyone entering or leaving and Mr Winch and the women went to another part of the house Constable Armstrong was with witness, and they remained in the sittingroom. Mr Winch meanwhile was speaking to one of the women, and soon returned. That was the whole affair. He could not remember exactly what hour this was. It was between 2 and 4 o'clock in the morning. The matter had been recalled to his mind by the affair of the detectives having been brought up again. He did not recognise the men seen going away from the house as detectives. He did not see any other constables there. The men seemed to be going away in a leisurely manner. He heard the disturbance near the house. There was no cry for the police. He could not fix the exact date and he would never have remembered any thing about it but for the mention of the detectives.
To Mr Winch - I do not think that there are any houses of ill repute in the city which you have not visited at one time or another.
To Mr DIXON - He could not say whether the night of which he was speaking was the one to which Constable Weldon referred in evidence. The latter's evidence might refer to another occasion. When Mr Winch and witness went into the house, the women went in too. Witness was not there more than in few minutes. He saw no other constable except Constable Weldon go in. There would not have been much time for what Constable Weldon mentioned to have occurred on the occasion of which witness was speaking. If Constable Weldon swore that there were three constables with him on the occasion of which he spoke, his evidence must have referred to a different occasion from that of which witness spoke.
To the CHAIRMAN- -He saw Constable Weldon leave the house, but no other constables.
Constable Weldon at this stage said that on the occasion to which he referred he did not see Sergeant Dalton. He should have seen him if he had been there.
Sergeant Dalton continued - Constable Weldon must have seen him if he had been present on the occasion mentioned by the latter.
The CHAIRMAN said that the evidence went to show that the two witnesses were not referring to the same night. The only shadow of semblance lay in the- mention of the detectives.
Witness went on to state that on the night to which he referred he saw Constable Weldon, but not three constables with him. He did not hear the cries for police which Constable Weldon said that he heard.
Mr FINCHAM and Mr DIXON remarked that there was a great discrepancy between the dates and circumstances of the affairs mentioned by the two witnesses.
Mr Winch said that the witness had shown that he had given instructions that those places should be visited, and that he had frequently visited them in company with constables. He denied that he had ever visited them except as a matter of duty, and it was indeed most unlikely that he would visit them otherwise, seeing that he had given strict instructions to the force that all these places were to be put down.
Mr DIXON pointed out that the witness had been called to prove that he was present on a certain occasion, and his evidence appeared to refer to an entirely different one.
The CHAIRMAN said that Sergeant Dalton's evidence did not in the least shake the evidence of Constable Weldon.
Mr Winch said that it was not sought to shake that evidence. He admitted that he was in the house on the occasion referred to, but he was there on duty, and for no immoral purpose whatever.
In reply to Mr FINCHAM, witness stated that this affair had been recalled to his mind by Mr Winch reading over certain evidence to him the other day, and then he also remembered ex Constable M'Cutcheon saying that he had seen Mr Winch dragged out dressed in a woman's clothes from under a woman's bed.
Mr Winch said that it was impossible for him to follow all these charges as they arose, and he did not propose to do so. He would not call any further evidence nor cross- examine any more witnesses. He would go to the Government and demand a board of inquiry into the specific charges that had been brought against him. He did not think it came within the province of the com- mission to place him on his trial as a public officer. It was a very serious matter for him that after 30 years service he should be put on trial for every trumpery thing that cropped up day after day.
The CHAIRMAN said that the commission was the best judge of the manner in which it should carry out its inquiry.
Mr Winch said he had no desire to interfere, but the commission had already placed upon bim what he looked upon as the in- justice and indignity of having him relieved from duty without any ground that he could see for it. He would call no more witnesses, and as an individual he would refuse to answer any more questions.
At this stage Sergeant O'Sullivan was re-called and repeated his complaint that he had been moved from the city to Fitzroy and Richmond because he had looked after the hotels, and summoned certain vendors of opiates. In reply to Mr Winch, he stated that he thought that he had been most harshly treated. He believed he was promoted to the rank of sergeant through the recommendation of Mr Smyth, formerly Crown prosecutor. Complaints were made against him for watching the premises of a Mr. Billings. He denied that he was removed to Fitzroy in consequence of there being more room for him there than at the barracks. He had stated that he was cleared out of the city by Superintendent Winch because he was too active in the performance of his duty.
Mr Winch -I do not understand what is meant by being "cleared out," but if it is that he was removed by me for the reason stated, I say that it is an absolute untruth, and the witness knows it.
Witness said he had grievances for a long time, but had not reported them to his officer as provided under the Police Regulation, No 317. He had a complaint written out the day before he was transferred, but he did not send it in. He referred it to Sergeant Perry at Russell street and he suggested that as the acting chief commissioner's name was used in the report he should strike it out and write a fresh report. Before he could do so, however, he was transferred.
To Mr LONGMORE -No one had spoken to him as to what evidence he should give before the commission.
At this stage of the inquiry the commission, adjourned until 11 o'clock on Tuesday morning next.
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