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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence
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== The Royal Commission evidence for 13/4/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 13/4/1881|day 12]])
'''[[Sadleir|Superintendent Sadeir]]''' '''giving evidence'''
2489 Up to this time those were extra men drafted from other districts?— Mostly.
<span id="rc2490">[[#rc2490|2490]]</span> Were they drawing extra [[Police pay and Conditions|pay]] besides their police allowance?— They were drawing 5s. a day for travelling allowance.
2491 What is the pay per day?— Seven shillings and eight shillings.
2492 What extra pay would the eight shillings mean?— It was five shillings only towards their travelling expenses.
2493 Did they get 5s. up to a certain date?— Yes.
2494 And when was it stopped?— I can find that out.
2495 Were the officers getting extra pay?— The officers get the same allowance at their scale.
2496 What is that?— Twelve shillings.
2497 That is the extra officers that came to your district under you?— I drew none.
2498 It was your station and the others would be entitled to it?— Yes, the others received 12s. a day.
2499 After it stopped, did any of the officers remain after it was stopped?— The officers' allowance never stopped. Mr. O'Connor's, Mr. Nicolson's, and Mr. Hare's never stopped while they were there.
2500 Nor the constables?— They all stopped at a certain period about the middle of that year.
2501 Though they were not permanently stationed there?— There was a formal order for. Their transfer, which would have the effect of bringing them outside the regulations in regard to extra allowance.
2502 Still they were doing duty out from their homes?— Yes.
2503 And that pay was stopped?— Yes.
2504 On whose recommendation was that stopped?— That came from the [[Standish|Chief Commissioner]] himself. I never heard of his consulting anybody else about it. I knew it was coming, but I am sure he never consulted anybody else about it.
2505 When Mr. Nicolson was giving the statement here as to the comparative expenses during Mr. Hare's time and his time, when that was a very much lower scale, will that be after the reductions were made of the extra pay?— I cannot say unless you show me the return.
2506 Under your system it was not necessary to have so many men as under the system carried out by Mr. Hare?— No.
2507 Then why did you disapprove of men being taken away?— I think the reduction was carried further than safety, even with that consideration.
2508 In fact the service was weakened?— The service was weakened. We were often at a difficulty for men. —[''A return was handed to the witness.'']
2509 That is the expenditure?— You are asking, I suppose, now from [[events 1879-05/ 1879-07at KellyGang|July 1879]] to [[events 1880-4/ 1880-6|May 1880]]. This return does not show expressly when the travelling expenses to constables ceased.
<span id="rc2510">[[#rc2510|2510]]</span> Do you remember Mr. [[Brooke Smith|Brook Smith]] being out with a party from [[Wangaratta|Wangaratta]]?— I remember hearing of it.
<span id="rc2511">[[#rc2511|2511]]</span> I think the evidence given here is rather against him—that is, he came in against orders. Do you remember whether he did?— I know nothing of it, except from Mr. Nicolson afterwards. I was at Benalla at the time.
<span id="rc2512">[[#rc2512|2512]]</span> Then you do not know anything at all about that circumstance, except what you have heard?— Nothing whatever.
<span id="rc2513">[[#rc2513|2513]]</span> Were you present?— I was present when Mr. Hare relieved Mr. Nicolson in the early part of June l880.
''Mr. Hare'' . —[[ev80-06-28Glenrowan|2nd June]].
''The Witnes''s. —Mr. Nicolson and Mr. O'Connor and myself were in my office when Mr. Hare came in. After a little preliminary conversation, Mr. Hare stated what we knew already—that he had come with authority to take over charge from Mr. Nicolson. Mr Nicolson handed him over—
2514 Was the authority verbal or written?— Written authority had passed.
2515 Such things are always done by correspondence?— I know Mr. Nicolson had his orders in writing, but whether Mr. Hare had his with him I do not know. The orders are generally sent ahead.
<span id="rc2516">[[#rc2516|2516]]</span> There are written instructions in all such cases?— Yes; Mr. Nicolson had his orders at this time.
''Mr. Nicolson'' . —A copy is in the hands of the Commission.
''The Witness'' . —I saw Mr. Nicolson, and heard him hand over and explain about papers relating to Kelly business. I knew the business exactly as it stood at the time. Mr. Nicolson, after the conclusion of his words to Mr. Hare, asked me if I thought that was all.
2517 Meaning if the information was complete?— Yes; had he forgotten anything.
<span id="rc2518">[[#rc2518|2518]]</span> Is the information complete, is that all?— Yes. “Have I forgotten anything,” he asked me—if I knew anything, or remembered anything, he had forgotten. He did not close his communication with Mr. Hare until he had mentioned everything that was essential, bearing on the case at all, that would be of any use to Mr. Hare. I think in Mr. Hare's presence; I am not quite sure of this. He asked me also to give all information to Mr. Hare. I had already told him I would do so. I did do so. There were a large number of documents, some old, some were recent, and I understood everything essential to the case was passed over to Mr. Hare......
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[[Royal Commission report day 12 page 12|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 12 page 14|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 13/4/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 13/4/1881|day 12]])
'''[[Sadleir|Superintendent Sadeir]]''' '''giving evidence'''
2489 Up to this time those were extra men drafted from other districts?— Mostly.
<span id="rc2490">[[#rc2490|2490]]</span> Were they drawing extra [[Police pay and Conditions|pay]] besides their police allowance?— They were drawing 5s. a day for travelling allowance.
2491 What is the pay per day?— Seven shillings and eight shillings.
2492 What extra pay would the eight shillings mean?— It was five shillings only towards their travelling expenses.
2493 Did they get 5s. up to a certain date?— Yes.
2494 And when was it stopped?— I can find that out.
2495 Were the officers getting extra pay?— The officers get the same allowance at their scale.
2496 What is that?— Twelve shillings.
2497 That is the extra officers that came to your district under you?— I drew none.
2498 It was your station and the others would be entitled to it?— Yes, the others received 12s. a day.
2499 After it stopped, did any of the officers remain after it was stopped?— The officers' allowance never stopped. Mr. O'Connor's, Mr. Nicolson's, and Mr. Hare's never stopped while they were there.
2500 Nor the constables?— They all stopped at a certain period about the middle of that year.
2501 Though they were not permanently stationed there?— There was a formal order for. Their transfer, which would have the effect of bringing them outside the regulations in regard to extra allowance.
2502 Still they were doing duty out from their homes?— Yes.
2503 And that pay was stopped?— Yes.
2504 On whose recommendation was that stopped?— That came from the [[Standish|Chief Commissioner]] himself. I never heard of his consulting anybody else about it. I knew it was coming, but I am sure he never consulted anybody else about it.
2505 When Mr. Nicolson was giving the statement here as to the comparative expenses during Mr. Hare's time and his time, when that was a very much lower scale, will that be after the reductions were made of the extra pay?— I cannot say unless you show me the return.
2506 Under your system it was not necessary to have so many men as under the system carried out by Mr. Hare?— No.
2507 Then why did you disapprove of men being taken away?— I think the reduction was carried further than safety, even with that consideration.
2508 In fact the service was weakened?— The service was weakened. We were often at a difficulty for men. —[''A return was handed to the witness.'']
2509 That is the expenditure?— You are asking, I suppose, now from [[events 1879-05/ 1879-07at KellyGang|July 1879]] to [[events 1880-4/ 1880-6|May 1880]]. This return does not show expressly when the travelling expenses to constables ceased.
<span id="rc2510">[[#rc2510|2510]]</span> Do you remember Mr. [[Brooke Smith|Brook Smith]] being out with a party from [[Wangaratta|Wangaratta]]?— I remember hearing of it.
<span id="rc2511">[[#rc2511|2511]]</span> I think the evidence given here is rather against him—that is, he came in against orders. Do you remember whether he did?— I know nothing of it, except from Mr. Nicolson afterwards. I was at Benalla at the time.
<span id="rc2512">[[#rc2512|2512]]</span> Then you do not know anything at all about that circumstance, except what you have heard?— Nothing whatever.
<span id="rc2513">[[#rc2513|2513]]</span> Were you present?— I was present when Mr. Hare relieved Mr. Nicolson in the early part of June l880.
''Mr. Hare'' . —[[ev80-06-28Glenrowan|2nd June]].
''The Witnes''s. —Mr. Nicolson and Mr. O'Connor and myself were in my office when Mr. Hare came in. After a little preliminary conversation, Mr. Hare stated what we knew already—that he had come with authority to take over charge from Mr. Nicolson. Mr Nicolson handed him over—
2514 Was the authority verbal or written?— Written authority had passed.
2515 Such things are always done by correspondence?— I know Mr. Nicolson had his orders in writing, but whether Mr. Hare had his with him I do not know. The orders are generally sent ahead.
<span id="rc2516">[[#rc2516|2516]]</span> There are written instructions in all such cases?— Yes; Mr. Nicolson had his orders at this time.
''Mr. Nicolson'' . —A copy is in the hands of the Commission.
''The Witness'' . —I saw Mr. Nicolson, and heard him hand over and explain about papers relating to Kelly business. I knew the business exactly as it stood at the time. Mr. Nicolson, after the conclusion of his words to Mr. Hare, asked me if I thought that was all.
2517 Meaning if the information was complete?— Yes; had he forgotten anything.
<span id="rc2518">[[#rc2518|2518]]</span> Is the information complete, is that all?— Yes. “Have I forgotten anything,” he asked me—if I knew anything, or remembered anything, he had forgotten. He did not close his communication with Mr. Hare until he had mentioned everything that was essential, bearing on the case at all, that would be of any use to Mr. Hare. I think in Mr. Hare's presence; I am not quite sure of this. He asked me also to give all information to Mr. Hare. I had already told him I would do so. I did do so. There were a large number of documents, some old, some were recent, and I understood everything essential to the case was passed over to Mr. Hare......
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<br />
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