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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence
[[Royal Commission report day 22 page 13|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 22 page 15|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 18/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 18/5/1881|day 22]])
'''SConst [[SConst John Kelly|Kelly]] giving evidence'''
<span id="rc8315">[[#rc8315|8315]]</span> Did you get any reply to that report?— I did, after about six weeks, I think.
<span id="rc8316">[[#rc8316|8316]]</span> And you did not go to Greta at all?— No; I was transferred to the Western district.
<span id="rc8317">[[#rc8317|8317]]</span> What was the nature of the reply?— I never got only just the order for the transfer. I know nothing of the correspondence that took place.
<span id="rc8318">[[#rc8318|8318]]</span> Did you consider that you were well-treated by being shifted from the place—that it was in kindness to you?— Yes.
<span id="rc8319">[[#rc8319|8319]]</span> That you were shifted?— Yes.
<span id="rc8320">[[#rc8320|8320]]</span> You did not think it would militate against you in any way at any future time?— I did not.
<span id="rc8321">[[#rc8321|8321]]</span> If there was a report sent that your request to be relieved amounted to cowardice, would you be astonished at that?— I would.
<span id="rc8322">[[#rc8322|8322]]</span> And if a report of that sort were sent in, would it be a bar to your promotion, do you believe?— I believe so.
<span id="rc8323">[[#rc8323|8323]]</span> Did you ever hear what the tenor of the report was?— Never — never a word about it. In this case it is necessary to tell you what the report was. I will read it for you presently.
<span id="rc8324">[[#rc8324|8324]]</span> When records are made in the sheet reflecting on a constable, have they an opportunity at the time of knowing of those?— They have not.
<span id="rc8325">[[#rc8325|8325]]</span> Suppose it were a report unfavorable to the conduct of the men, they have no opportunity of knowing that those records have been made?— No, none.
<span id="rc8326">[[#rc8326|8326]]</span> That [[Police Organisation|record sheet]] of records made from time to time always remains in the office, does it?— I believe one is in the superintendent's office and one in the chief's.
<span id="rc8327">[[#rc8327|8327]]</span> Suppose any time a constable has a record made to his disadvantage — say two years ago — would that record militate against his future promotion in time to come?— I believe it would.
<span id="rc8328">[[#rc8328|8328]]</span> For all time to come would it weigh with the officer who had to deal with the constable's case in after life: is that so?— Yes, I believe it would.
<span id="rc8329">[[#rc8329|8329]]</span> So that a record of a damaging character being made against a constable, he has no opportunity to explain any particular conduct on his part which induced the officer to make the record?— No; I never heard of a man having an opportunity to make a record.
<span id="rc8330">[[#rc8330|8330]]</span> So that the men are really at the mercy of the officers?— Yes.
<span id="rc8331">[[#rc8331|8331]]</span> So that if the officers are so dishonest as to make a false record of a man's conduct it would remain upon the record sheet, and it would never come to his own knowledge?— I believe I have heard of a constable applying for his record sheet to know what was in it, and I believe it was read to him in the office.
<span id="rc8332">[[#rc8332|8332]]</span> I suppose a member of the police force would never apply for a record sheet without he had some reasonable grounds to suppose that some record had been made to his disadvantage?— Yes, exactly.
''Mr. [[Sadleir|Sadleir]]'' — Would you read the entry immediately preceding that?
''The Chairman'' — We will conduct the business in our own way. You must not interfere. The simple result of these interferences will be that we will sit in private and not allow any stranger to be present. We have found that these interferences with the witness have very seriously altered his tone before the Commission, not in this case but in other cases; and we have it in serious consideration whether we will not sit in private and get the information the best way we can.
''Mr. Sadleir'' — I beg your pardon. The reason I spoke was that I saw you bow to me, and I understood it to be a permission to speak.....
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[[Royal Commission report day 22 page 13|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 22 page 15|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 18/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 18/5/1881|day 22]])
'''SConst [[SConst John Kelly|Kelly]] giving evidence'''
<span id="rc8315">[[#rc8315|8315]]</span> Did you get any reply to that report?— I did, after about six weeks, I think.
<span id="rc8316">[[#rc8316|8316]]</span> And you did not go to Greta at all?— No; I was transferred to the Western district.
<span id="rc8317">[[#rc8317|8317]]</span> What was the nature of the reply?— I never got only just the order for the transfer. I know nothing of the correspondence that took place.
<span id="rc8318">[[#rc8318|8318]]</span> Did you consider that you were well-treated by being shifted from the place—that it was in kindness to you?— Yes.
<span id="rc8319">[[#rc8319|8319]]</span> That you were shifted?— Yes.
<span id="rc8320">[[#rc8320|8320]]</span> You did not think it would militate against you in any way at any future time?— I did not.
<span id="rc8321">[[#rc8321|8321]]</span> If there was a report sent that your request to be relieved amounted to cowardice, would you be astonished at that?— I would.
<span id="rc8322">[[#rc8322|8322]]</span> And if a report of that sort were sent in, would it be a bar to your promotion, do you believe?— I believe so.
<span id="rc8323">[[#rc8323|8323]]</span> Did you ever hear what the tenor of the report was?— Never — never a word about it. In this case it is necessary to tell you what the report was. I will read it for you presently.
<span id="rc8324">[[#rc8324|8324]]</span> When records are made in the sheet reflecting on a constable, have they an opportunity at the time of knowing of those?— They have not.
<span id="rc8325">[[#rc8325|8325]]</span> Suppose it were a report unfavorable to the conduct of the men, they have no opportunity of knowing that those records have been made?— No, none.
<span id="rc8326">[[#rc8326|8326]]</span> That [[Police Organisation|record sheet]] of records made from time to time always remains in the office, does it?— I believe one is in the superintendent's office and one in the chief's.
<span id="rc8327">[[#rc8327|8327]]</span> Suppose any time a constable has a record made to his disadvantage — say two years ago — would that record militate against his future promotion in time to come?— I believe it would.
<span id="rc8328">[[#rc8328|8328]]</span> For all time to come would it weigh with the officer who had to deal with the constable's case in after life: is that so?— Yes, I believe it would.
<span id="rc8329">[[#rc8329|8329]]</span> So that a record of a damaging character being made against a constable, he has no opportunity to explain any particular conduct on his part which induced the officer to make the record?— No; I never heard of a man having an opportunity to make a record.
<span id="rc8330">[[#rc8330|8330]]</span> So that the men are really at the mercy of the officers?— Yes.
<span id="rc8331">[[#rc8331|8331]]</span> So that if the officers are so dishonest as to make a false record of a man's conduct it would remain upon the record sheet, and it would never come to his own knowledge?— I believe I have heard of a constable applying for his record sheet to know what was in it, and I believe it was read to him in the office.
<span id="rc8332">[[#rc8332|8332]]</span> I suppose a member of the police force would never apply for a record sheet without he had some reasonable grounds to suppose that some record had been made to his disadvantage?— Yes, exactly.
''Mr. [[Sadleir|Sadleir]]'' — Would you read the entry immediately preceding that?
''The Chairman'' — We will conduct the business in our own way. You must not interfere. The simple result of these interferences will be that we will sit in private and not allow any stranger to be present. We have found that these interferences with the witness have very seriously altered his tone before the Commission, not in this case but in other cases; and we have it in serious consideration whether we will not sit in private and get the information the best way we can.
''Mr. Sadleir'' — I beg your pardon. The reason I spoke was that I saw you bow to me, and I understood it to be a permission to speak.....
=== Previous page / Next page ===
<br />
{{MicroficheCopy}}<br />
'''The [[Royal Commission report day 21 page 1|previous day]] / [[Royal Commission report day 23 page 1|next day]] . . . Royal Commission [[Royal Commission Index|index]]'''
[[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:October 1518]] [[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:Commisioner Standish]] [[Category:history]]
MediaWiki:Sidebar
{{^|Original page location \documents\RoyalCommission\RC810518_22_14_8315.html}}
