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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence
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== The Royal Commission evidence for 13/4/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 13/4/1881|day 12]])
[[../../people/peU_Z/wyattMag.htm|'''Alfred Wyatt, P.M. '''giving evidence'''''']]
<span id="rc2400">[[#rc2400|2400]]</span> You would communicate with an officer in your district first?— Yes.
<span id="rc2401">[[#rc2401|2401]]</span> Had you any occasion to do so?— Never.
<span id="rc2402">[[#rc2402|2402]]</span> Then I assume, if it was your duty, and you did not do it, that nothing occurred?— Nothing occurred but one thing.
<span id="rc2403">[[#rc2403|2403]]</span> What was that?— It was in the matter of [[Sympathizers|arrests]]. I felt so strongly the course the police took was wrong and totally indefensible in a British community, in keeping those men in custody in Beechworth on what proved ultimately to be no charges at all, that at last I came and said to Sir Bryan O'Loghlen the then Acting [[Chief Secretary|Chief Secretary]]- “You are doing a great deal of harm to your own cause there, and I beseech you to take some confidential officer from your own department and send him there to enquire into the cases against every man, and discharge every one against whom there is not a case.” As a matter of fact, seven or eleven men were discharged.
<span id="rc2404">[[#rc2404|2404]]</span> Was not the action taken by the then Acting Chief Secretary and Attorney-General such as legally could only be taken under the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act?— There was no suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act.
2405 But it would be solely legal if that was suspended?— It was not legal as it was.
2406 It would be legal under the Habeas Corpus Act?— No.
<span id="rc2407">[[#rc2407|2407]]</span> Was the action of the Attorney-General illegal in the way that it was done?— No, contrary-wise; his action was the rectifying of the illegality-to arrest a man without a charge was illegal.
<span id="rc2408">[[#rc2408|2408]]</span> Under whose direction were those men arrested?— [[Standish|Standish]]'s, I believe.
2409 Do you know that of your own knowledge?— I cannot say to what extent I know it.
2410 You have stated now that you went and remonstrated with the Chief Secretary?— Yes.
2411 Did you with Captain Standish?— Yes, and Mr. [[Sadleir|Sadleir]].
<span id="rc2412">[[#rc2412|2412]]</span> Did you hear Mr. Sadleir say, in his evidence here, it was done contrary to his opinion?— I did, and I was much struck with that, for with proper official reticence he had never said so to me before.
<span id="rc2413">[[#rc2413|2413]]</span> He could not well have expressed that opinion upon his officer's action?— No, and I would not have asked him. I used to say to the officers in speaking of these matters, “Do not tell me anything if you do not feel at liberty.”
<span id="rc2414">[[#rc2414|2414]]</span> It has been stated in the public prints repeatedly that the police of the district-that is the subordinate police and sergeants, and so on-all seemed desirous that they should be led by Mr. [[Hare|Hare]]?— I never heard that.
2415 Did you read it in the paper?— I never read it.
<span id="rc2416">[[#rc2416|2416]]</span> Do you get the papers in your district?— I do, but although I feel it my duty to subscribe to all the papers in my district, I fall in arrear in the reading sometimes. I may have a hundred papers in my room to read through, and cannot get through all. I feel it my duty to know all that is in the papers, although they call me over the coals sometimes, and very rightly.
<span id="rc2417">[[#rc2417|2417]]</span> There is a paragraph here in the ''Rutherglen and Wahgunyah News'', [[events 1880-4/ 1880-6|14th May 1880]], which says that in Superintendent Frank [[Hare|Hare]] the men have the most perfect confidence’ and so on-[''reading the .paragraph'']. —The question is this— Are you aware, from being two years in almost daily communication with the police, that they wanted to be led by Mr. Hare?— No, I cannot say that.
<span id="rc2418">[[#rc2418|2418]]</span> You have no knowledge of that?— No. I am sure there is a very enthusiastic liking for him for his dash and frank manner. Altogether he is universally liked in the force, and without saying that the others are not, I think it is true that there is more partiality for him amongst the men.
<span id="rc2419">[[#rc2419|2419]]</span> You are firmly convinced that the plan adopted by Mr. Nicolson when he was in charge was, in your opinion from your knowledge of the district and particulars of the case, the most likely to be efficient in the end?— I am firmly convinced of that. I think it would have led to their being apprehended-no man can say how soon; but I think it was a fortunate accident for Mr. Hare that they committed themselves shortly after he went there. I think they would have been bound to commit themselves shortly after that, even if Mr. Hare had not been there.
<span id="rc2420">[[#rc2420|2420]]</span> Is it not a fact that you sent a communication to Captain Standish complaining that Mr. Nicolson and Mr. Sadleir did not take the steps necessary at the time of your meeting them at the railway?— No. I have stated that Captain Standish is wrong in saying that.
<span id="rc2421">[[#rc2421|2421]]</span> Did you write a letter?— No. All my communications with this gentleman were verbal, and I merely wished to correct that; and when I said yesterday, in this room, that Captain Standish was inaccurate, owing to the bad light I was under the impression that he was sitting behind me and was present at the time.
<span id="rc2422">[[#rc2422|2422]]</span> You stated just now you had information that the [[KellyGang|Kellys]] were getting sausages and other provisions from [[Ben Gould|Gould]]. Is it within your knowledge that they got maintenance of that character in any other portions of the district-Benalla for instance?— I do not know of my own knowledge. I was not told by any individual. I know it merely from seeing it in newspapers, and general talk, that [[Kate Kelly|Kate Kelly]] was there, and at the shops. I did hear there were a vast number of threepenny pieces in circulation, which were supposed to be from the bank robbery.
2423 Did you hear of New South Wales notes?— No.
2424 Are you aware how the Kellys were armed-do you know they had police firearms?— I know that from what I have read.
<span id="rc2425">[[#rc2425|2425]]</span> Did you receive any information, as being magistrate of the district, of the purchase of ammunition from Melbourne ?— I did......
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[[Royal Commission report day 12 page 8|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 12 page 10|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 13/4/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 13/4/1881|day 12]])
[[../../people/peU_Z/wyattMag.htm|'''Alfred Wyatt, P.M. '''giving evidence'''''']]
<span id="rc2400">[[#rc2400|2400]]</span> You would communicate with an officer in your district first?— Yes.
<span id="rc2401">[[#rc2401|2401]]</span> Had you any occasion to do so?— Never.
<span id="rc2402">[[#rc2402|2402]]</span> Then I assume, if it was your duty, and you did not do it, that nothing occurred?— Nothing occurred but one thing.
<span id="rc2403">[[#rc2403|2403]]</span> What was that?— It was in the matter of [[Sympathizers|arrests]]. I felt so strongly the course the police took was wrong and totally indefensible in a British community, in keeping those men in custody in Beechworth on what proved ultimately to be no charges at all, that at last I came and said to Sir Bryan O'Loghlen the then Acting [[Chief Secretary|Chief Secretary]]- “You are doing a great deal of harm to your own cause there, and I beseech you to take some confidential officer from your own department and send him there to enquire into the cases against every man, and discharge every one against whom there is not a case.” As a matter of fact, seven or eleven men were discharged.
<span id="rc2404">[[#rc2404|2404]]</span> Was not the action taken by the then Acting Chief Secretary and Attorney-General such as legally could only be taken under the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act?— There was no suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act.
2405 But it would be solely legal if that was suspended?— It was not legal as it was.
2406 It would be legal under the Habeas Corpus Act?— No.
<span id="rc2407">[[#rc2407|2407]]</span> Was the action of the Attorney-General illegal in the way that it was done?— No, contrary-wise; his action was the rectifying of the illegality-to arrest a man without a charge was illegal.
<span id="rc2408">[[#rc2408|2408]]</span> Under whose direction were those men arrested?— [[Standish|Standish]]'s, I believe.
2409 Do you know that of your own knowledge?— I cannot say to what extent I know it.
2410 You have stated now that you went and remonstrated with the Chief Secretary?— Yes.
2411 Did you with Captain Standish?— Yes, and Mr. [[Sadleir|Sadleir]].
<span id="rc2412">[[#rc2412|2412]]</span> Did you hear Mr. Sadleir say, in his evidence here, it was done contrary to his opinion?— I did, and I was much struck with that, for with proper official reticence he had never said so to me before.
<span id="rc2413">[[#rc2413|2413]]</span> He could not well have expressed that opinion upon his officer's action?— No, and I would not have asked him. I used to say to the officers in speaking of these matters, “Do not tell me anything if you do not feel at liberty.”
<span id="rc2414">[[#rc2414|2414]]</span> It has been stated in the public prints repeatedly that the police of the district-that is the subordinate police and sergeants, and so on-all seemed desirous that they should be led by Mr. [[Hare|Hare]]?— I never heard that.
2415 Did you read it in the paper?— I never read it.
<span id="rc2416">[[#rc2416|2416]]</span> Do you get the papers in your district?— I do, but although I feel it my duty to subscribe to all the papers in my district, I fall in arrear in the reading sometimes. I may have a hundred papers in my room to read through, and cannot get through all. I feel it my duty to know all that is in the papers, although they call me over the coals sometimes, and very rightly.
<span id="rc2417">[[#rc2417|2417]]</span> There is a paragraph here in the ''Rutherglen and Wahgunyah News'', [[events 1880-4/ 1880-6|14th May 1880]], which says that in Superintendent Frank [[Hare|Hare]] the men have the most perfect confidence’ and so on-[''reading the .paragraph'']. —The question is this— Are you aware, from being two years in almost daily communication with the police, that they wanted to be led by Mr. Hare?— No, I cannot say that.
<span id="rc2418">[[#rc2418|2418]]</span> You have no knowledge of that?— No. I am sure there is a very enthusiastic liking for him for his dash and frank manner. Altogether he is universally liked in the force, and without saying that the others are not, I think it is true that there is more partiality for him amongst the men.
<span id="rc2419">[[#rc2419|2419]]</span> You are firmly convinced that the plan adopted by Mr. Nicolson when he was in charge was, in your opinion from your knowledge of the district and particulars of the case, the most likely to be efficient in the end?— I am firmly convinced of that. I think it would have led to their being apprehended-no man can say how soon; but I think it was a fortunate accident for Mr. Hare that they committed themselves shortly after he went there. I think they would have been bound to commit themselves shortly after that, even if Mr. Hare had not been there.
<span id="rc2420">[[#rc2420|2420]]</span> Is it not a fact that you sent a communication to Captain Standish complaining that Mr. Nicolson and Mr. Sadleir did not take the steps necessary at the time of your meeting them at the railway?— No. I have stated that Captain Standish is wrong in saying that.
<span id="rc2421">[[#rc2421|2421]]</span> Did you write a letter?— No. All my communications with this gentleman were verbal, and I merely wished to correct that; and when I said yesterday, in this room, that Captain Standish was inaccurate, owing to the bad light I was under the impression that he was sitting behind me and was present at the time.
<span id="rc2422">[[#rc2422|2422]]</span> You stated just now you had information that the [[KellyGang|Kellys]] were getting sausages and other provisions from [[Ben Gould|Gould]]. Is it within your knowledge that they got maintenance of that character in any other portions of the district-Benalla for instance?— I do not know of my own knowledge. I was not told by any individual. I know it merely from seeing it in newspapers, and general talk, that [[Kate Kelly|Kate Kelly]] was there, and at the shops. I did hear there were a vast number of threepenny pieces in circulation, which were supposed to be from the bank robbery.
2423 Did you hear of New South Wales notes?— No.
2424 Are you aware how the Kellys were armed-do you know they had police firearms?— I know that from what I have read.
<span id="rc2425">[[#rc2425|2425]]</span> Did you receive any information, as being magistrate of the district, of the purchase of ammunition from Melbourne ?— I did......
=== Previous page / Next page ===
<br />
{{MicroficheCopy}}<br />
'''The [[Royal Commission report day 11 page 1|previous day]] / [[Royal Commission report day 13 page 1|next day]] . . . Royal Commission [[Royal Commission Index|index]]'''
[[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:December 1413]] [[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:Commisioner Standish]] [[Category:history]]
MediaWiki:Sidebar
{{^|Original page location \documents\RoyalCommission\RC810413_12_09_2400.html}}
