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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence
[[Royal Commission report day 14 page 15|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 14 page 17|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 3/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 3/5/1881|day 14]])
'''Inspector [[Insp Wliiam Montfort|Montfort]]''' '''giving evidence'''
3341 But if offences were taking place constantly in the district, and no man made amenable?— It would not be policeman's fault alone.
3342 Would it not cause you to enquire if it was his fault?— It would necessitate a very large amount of supervision on his part.
<span id="rc3343">[[#rc3343|3343]]</span> Would not the inspecting officer be bound in that case to be doubly careful if he doubted the man's efficiency?— Undoubtedly. It is laid down in the regulations.
<span id="rc3344">[[#rc3344|3344]]</span> Do you know anything about the promotion in the service amongst the men; is it by the Chief Commissioner?— The Chief Commissioner.
3345 Upon what recommendation?— Upon the recommendation of the superintendents of police.
<span id="rc3346">[[#rc3346|3346]]</span> Is it altogether arbitrary on the officer taking upon himself the responsibility of recommending promotion, or is it by political patronage?— There is no political patronage I am aware of. Promotion is made by the Chief Commissioner of Police on the recommendation of the officer in charge of the district. There are a certain number of promotions allowed in each rank in proportion to the number of men in the district. For instance, Superintendent Winch in Melbourne would be permitted to recommend a greater number of men for promotion in the ranks than any other officer, because he has a greater number of men under him.
<span id="rc3347">[[#rc3347|3347]]</span> Then another man more efficient in another district might in consequence of that fact not be promoted?— Yes; or another man very inefficient might be promoted over the head of a good man here.
3348 That may occur?— Yes.
<span id="rc3349">[[#rc3349|3349]]</span> It is not by a mere general system of record sheets?— No. With reference to the superintendents' action, I was not a superintendent, but I believe it was always the rule of the superintendents I was with that the record sheet, together with the man's general efficiency, length of service, aptitude for the post, and so forth, was the basis upon which he recommended.
<span id="rc3350">[[#rc3350|3350]]</span> It is quite possible then that in the city of Melbourne a man with a shorter service, and without an efficient record, would be promoted over men of a more lengthened service in the country districts?— No, on the contrary; you must reverse it. The man in the country competes with only 30 men, while the man here competes with 300—that is the difference.
3351 Do you know if that is a matter of complaint?— Yes, I know it is a matter of complaint.
<span id="rc3352">[[#rc3352|3352]]</span> The men in each district are promoted for their district, and not through the police force generally?— That is a question I cannot answer. I do not know what reasons the Commissioner may have for promoting men. I can only state the manner in which the names are submitted to him. A man can be removed to any part of the colony.
3353 I understood you to say that a policeman in Melbourne had far less chance—300 to 30?— Yes.
3354 What I wish to know is—are those promotions confined to localities?— Each officer recommends so many for promotion.
<span id="rc3355">[[#rc3355|3335]]</span> Then how can there be discontent, if a certain number out of 300, and a proportionate number only out of 30, can be recommended?— The discontent is this—Take the case of a senior-constable, we will say in a small district, the Western district—he is promoted, and he may be the best man there, and recommended by the superintendent on that account. He comes into Melbourne here, and he takes precedence over men that are his seniors in length of service and his superiors in ability and everything.
3356 Now, as a matter of fact, when he is promoted, is he not removed at once?— He ought to be.
3357 That is understood?— He must be unless there is a vacancy made for him in the district, because only a certain number are allowed in each district.
<span id="rc3358">[[#rc3358|3358]]</span> Do you know that senior-constables in the district are employed in private service for which they receive remuneration altogether independent of the Government service—as inspectors of nuisances, and so on, by shires and others?— I know that is so, because I was inspector of nuisances myself at one time.
3359 Do you think that is good for the public service?— I do not; I think no man should hold any position except that in the Government service.
<span id="rc3360">[[#rc3360|3360]]</span> Do you not think that it is very unsatisfactory that officers highly paid, and whose services ought to be applied to the Government service, should be employed in those subordinate things?— That is my opinion.....
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[[Royal Commission report day 14 page 15|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 14 page 17|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 3/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 3/5/1881|day 14]])
'''Inspector [[Insp Wliiam Montfort|Montfort]]''' '''giving evidence'''
3341 But if offences were taking place constantly in the district, and no man made amenable?— It would not be policeman's fault alone.
3342 Would it not cause you to enquire if it was his fault?— It would necessitate a very large amount of supervision on his part.
<span id="rc3343">[[#rc3343|3343]]</span> Would not the inspecting officer be bound in that case to be doubly careful if he doubted the man's efficiency?— Undoubtedly. It is laid down in the regulations.
<span id="rc3344">[[#rc3344|3344]]</span> Do you know anything about the promotion in the service amongst the men; is it by the Chief Commissioner?— The Chief Commissioner.
3345 Upon what recommendation?— Upon the recommendation of the superintendents of police.
<span id="rc3346">[[#rc3346|3346]]</span> Is it altogether arbitrary on the officer taking upon himself the responsibility of recommending promotion, or is it by political patronage?— There is no political patronage I am aware of. Promotion is made by the Chief Commissioner of Police on the recommendation of the officer in charge of the district. There are a certain number of promotions allowed in each rank in proportion to the number of men in the district. For instance, Superintendent Winch in Melbourne would be permitted to recommend a greater number of men for promotion in the ranks than any other officer, because he has a greater number of men under him.
<span id="rc3347">[[#rc3347|3347]]</span> Then another man more efficient in another district might in consequence of that fact not be promoted?— Yes; or another man very inefficient might be promoted over the head of a good man here.
3348 That may occur?— Yes.
<span id="rc3349">[[#rc3349|3349]]</span> It is not by a mere general system of record sheets?— No. With reference to the superintendents' action, I was not a superintendent, but I believe it was always the rule of the superintendents I was with that the record sheet, together with the man's general efficiency, length of service, aptitude for the post, and so forth, was the basis upon which he recommended.
<span id="rc3350">[[#rc3350|3350]]</span> It is quite possible then that in the city of Melbourne a man with a shorter service, and without an efficient record, would be promoted over men of a more lengthened service in the country districts?— No, on the contrary; you must reverse it. The man in the country competes with only 30 men, while the man here competes with 300—that is the difference.
3351 Do you know if that is a matter of complaint?— Yes, I know it is a matter of complaint.
<span id="rc3352">[[#rc3352|3352]]</span> The men in each district are promoted for their district, and not through the police force generally?— That is a question I cannot answer. I do not know what reasons the Commissioner may have for promoting men. I can only state the manner in which the names are submitted to him. A man can be removed to any part of the colony.
3353 I understood you to say that a policeman in Melbourne had far less chance—300 to 30?— Yes.
3354 What I wish to know is—are those promotions confined to localities?— Each officer recommends so many for promotion.
<span id="rc3355">[[#rc3355|3335]]</span> Then how can there be discontent, if a certain number out of 300, and a proportionate number only out of 30, can be recommended?— The discontent is this—Take the case of a senior-constable, we will say in a small district, the Western district—he is promoted, and he may be the best man there, and recommended by the superintendent on that account. He comes into Melbourne here, and he takes precedence over men that are his seniors in length of service and his superiors in ability and everything.
3356 Now, as a matter of fact, when he is promoted, is he not removed at once?— He ought to be.
3357 That is understood?— He must be unless there is a vacancy made for him in the district, because only a certain number are allowed in each district.
<span id="rc3358">[[#rc3358|3358]]</span> Do you know that senior-constables in the district are employed in private service for which they receive remuneration altogether independent of the Government service—as inspectors of nuisances, and so on, by shires and others?— I know that is so, because I was inspector of nuisances myself at one time.
3359 Do you think that is good for the public service?— I do not; I think no man should hold any position except that in the Government service.
<span id="rc3360">[[#rc3360|3360]]</span> Do you not think that it is very unsatisfactory that officers highly paid, and whose services ought to be applied to the Government service, should be employed in those subordinate things?— That is my opinion.....
=== Previous page / Next page ===
<br />
{{MicroficheCopy}}<br />
'''The [[Royal Commission report day 13 page 1|previous day]] / [[Royal Commission report day 15 page 1|next day]] . . . Royal Commission [[Royal Commission Index|index]]'''
[[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:February 1503]] [[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:Commisioner Standish]] [[Category:history]]
MediaWiki:Sidebar
{{^|Original page location \documents\RoyalCommission\RC810503_14_16_3341.html}}
