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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence
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== The Royal Commission evidence for 4/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 4/5/1881|day 15]])
'''Inspector [[Insp Wliiam Montfort|Montfort]]''' '''giving evidence'''
<span id="rc3534">[[#rc3534|3534]]</span> What about the second one?— I know nothing about him.
<span id="rc3535">[[#rc3535|3535]]</span> Do you see this same here—[''pointing to another'']—do you know him, or any of his family?— Yes.
<span id="rc3536">[[#rc3536|3536]]</span> Would you class that man amongst them?— Decidedly. Not as being direct criminals themselves, but aiders and abettors, and sympathizers, on all occasions. His two daughters are married to criminals.
<span id="rc3537">[[#rc3537|3537]]</span> Did I understand you to say, in reply to a question by Mr. Sadleir, that in the interest of the public service it would be desirable to prevent suspected persons, by reports from the police, from becoming [[Selectors|selectors]] of land under the Land Act?— Yes, persons that they have a reasonable ground for believing to be so, which reasonable ground can be substantiated, because the police may have good grounds for believing a man to be a [[Horse and Cattle stealing|horse stealer]] and yet not be able to arrest him. If they could prove it, of course he could be arrested, but the police may know it only from circumstantial evidence, which may yet be quite sufficient to establish their belief.
<span id="rc3538">[[#rc3538|3538]]</span> All this applies to the [[Kelly Country|Kelly district]] in consequence of the outrages?— And it has been so for years.
<span id="rc3539">[[#rc3539|3539]]</span> There is no other district in the colony it applies to?— I do not think so. I may mention that it is the law here in Melbourne , that the occupier of a house which is frequented by disorderly persons and thieves can be brought up under the Vagrant Act. None of those persons I speak of are themselves suspected persons, but they always harbor and allow their places to be frequented by men who have been known to be criminals. On those grounds the law would simply be extended, or the operation of it, to a certain extent. I am only giving my opinion, but I am put on my oath to give my opinion. I would just add that in north-eastern Victoria the persons referred to in Mr. Sadleir's question had, in my time, the invariable tendency always to settle at the back, always on the outside of the settled country, having nothing behind them but the ranges—that was always their disposition.
<span id="rc3540">[[#rc3540|3540]]</span> And anybody that travels will always find it so along the skirts of the Gippsland mountains?— Hence the difficulty of getting at them.
<span id="rc3541">[[#rc3541|3541]]</span> Would you recommend that a list of the persons of the character you allude to should be kept in the Crown Lands office, in order to avoid the evil you speak of, as being the most effectual to prevent its taking place, by the report from the police from all the districts?— I think so, because I do not think the aggregation of those people in any locality ought to be allowed. It has always been productive of the greatest evils in that district as long as I remember.
<span id="rc3542">[[#rc3542|3542]]</span> Are you aware that in the North-Eastern district exactly what the last question proposes has been done, that a very large number of names are in the hands of the Lands department who will be refused land on applying for it in that particular district?— I heard so; indeed I saw the correspondence in connection with one man, but that is all I know. It was not so in my time.
<span id="rc3543">[[#rc3543|3543]]</span> Do you approve of the desirability of preventing the collection of those dangerous characters, who concert together, settle in the district, and so act together; do you consider it desirable that when those men apply for land, pay the survey fees, and the case is heard in open court before the public, for the officer in charge of the Lands Department to say, “I refuse you this land in consequence of the police objecting to your taking it”?— Well, putting it in that way, it is a very hard case, no doubt. I think the police should be called upon to give reasons, but those reasons should be looked upon as confidential.
<span id="rc3544">[[#rc3544|3544]]</span> Can you approximately estimate the number of persons of the class you allude to now in occupation of lands up there?— I am not speaking of the state of affairs there now. I know nothing about it. I have not been there for the last eight years.
<span id="rc3545">[[#rc3545|3545]]</span> You appear to be aware there are a large number of persons of that sort?— I am referring to the names of those persons on that paper that I know were suspected as being a bad lot.
<span id="rc3546">[[#rc3546|3546]]</span> You do not know whether they are in possession of land?— No.
<span id="rc3547">[[#rc3547|3547]]</span> Look at the one marked S and the one marked “crosses,” do they belong to the class that ought not to get land?— There is nothing against them, to my knowledge.
<span id="rc3548">[[#rc3548|3548]]</span> ''By Mr. Sadleir''. —Are you not aware there is a warrant against one, then?— I have already said that man should not be allowed to have land.
<span id="rc3549">[[#rc3549|3549]]</span> You say there are no other districts in the same state?— Not to my knowledge.
<span id="rc3550">[[#rc3550|3550]]</span> Are you aware of the country beyond [[Omeo (2)|Omeo]]?— I look upon that as all North-Eastern Victoria, and the Omeo should be protected as much as the other.....
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[[Royal Commission report day 15 page 2|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 15 page 4|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 4/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 4/5/1881|day 15]])
'''Inspector [[Insp Wliiam Montfort|Montfort]]''' '''giving evidence'''
<span id="rc3534">[[#rc3534|3534]]</span> What about the second one?— I know nothing about him.
<span id="rc3535">[[#rc3535|3535]]</span> Do you see this same here—[''pointing to another'']—do you know him, or any of his family?— Yes.
<span id="rc3536">[[#rc3536|3536]]</span> Would you class that man amongst them?— Decidedly. Not as being direct criminals themselves, but aiders and abettors, and sympathizers, on all occasions. His two daughters are married to criminals.
<span id="rc3537">[[#rc3537|3537]]</span> Did I understand you to say, in reply to a question by Mr. Sadleir, that in the interest of the public service it would be desirable to prevent suspected persons, by reports from the police, from becoming [[Selectors|selectors]] of land under the Land Act?— Yes, persons that they have a reasonable ground for believing to be so, which reasonable ground can be substantiated, because the police may have good grounds for believing a man to be a [[Horse and Cattle stealing|horse stealer]] and yet not be able to arrest him. If they could prove it, of course he could be arrested, but the police may know it only from circumstantial evidence, which may yet be quite sufficient to establish their belief.
<span id="rc3538">[[#rc3538|3538]]</span> All this applies to the [[Kelly Country|Kelly district]] in consequence of the outrages?— And it has been so for years.
<span id="rc3539">[[#rc3539|3539]]</span> There is no other district in the colony it applies to?— I do not think so. I may mention that it is the law here in Melbourne , that the occupier of a house which is frequented by disorderly persons and thieves can be brought up under the Vagrant Act. None of those persons I speak of are themselves suspected persons, but they always harbor and allow their places to be frequented by men who have been known to be criminals. On those grounds the law would simply be extended, or the operation of it, to a certain extent. I am only giving my opinion, but I am put on my oath to give my opinion. I would just add that in north-eastern Victoria the persons referred to in Mr. Sadleir's question had, in my time, the invariable tendency always to settle at the back, always on the outside of the settled country, having nothing behind them but the ranges—that was always their disposition.
<span id="rc3540">[[#rc3540|3540]]</span> And anybody that travels will always find it so along the skirts of the Gippsland mountains?— Hence the difficulty of getting at them.
<span id="rc3541">[[#rc3541|3541]]</span> Would you recommend that a list of the persons of the character you allude to should be kept in the Crown Lands office, in order to avoid the evil you speak of, as being the most effectual to prevent its taking place, by the report from the police from all the districts?— I think so, because I do not think the aggregation of those people in any locality ought to be allowed. It has always been productive of the greatest evils in that district as long as I remember.
<span id="rc3542">[[#rc3542|3542]]</span> Are you aware that in the North-Eastern district exactly what the last question proposes has been done, that a very large number of names are in the hands of the Lands department who will be refused land on applying for it in that particular district?— I heard so; indeed I saw the correspondence in connection with one man, but that is all I know. It was not so in my time.
<span id="rc3543">[[#rc3543|3543]]</span> Do you approve of the desirability of preventing the collection of those dangerous characters, who concert together, settle in the district, and so act together; do you consider it desirable that when those men apply for land, pay the survey fees, and the case is heard in open court before the public, for the officer in charge of the Lands Department to say, “I refuse you this land in consequence of the police objecting to your taking it”?— Well, putting it in that way, it is a very hard case, no doubt. I think the police should be called upon to give reasons, but those reasons should be looked upon as confidential.
<span id="rc3544">[[#rc3544|3544]]</span> Can you approximately estimate the number of persons of the class you allude to now in occupation of lands up there?— I am not speaking of the state of affairs there now. I know nothing about it. I have not been there for the last eight years.
<span id="rc3545">[[#rc3545|3545]]</span> You appear to be aware there are a large number of persons of that sort?— I am referring to the names of those persons on that paper that I know were suspected as being a bad lot.
<span id="rc3546">[[#rc3546|3546]]</span> You do not know whether they are in possession of land?— No.
<span id="rc3547">[[#rc3547|3547]]</span> Look at the one marked S and the one marked “crosses,” do they belong to the class that ought not to get land?— There is nothing against them, to my knowledge.
<span id="rc3548">[[#rc3548|3548]]</span> ''By Mr. Sadleir''. —Are you not aware there is a warrant against one, then?— I have already said that man should not be allowed to have land.
<span id="rc3549">[[#rc3549|3549]]</span> You say there are no other districts in the same state?— Not to my knowledge.
<span id="rc3550">[[#rc3550|3550]]</span> Are you aware of the country beyond [[Omeo (2)|Omeo]]?— I look upon that as all North-Eastern Victoria, and the Omeo should be protected as much as the other.....
=== Previous page / Next page ===
<br />
{{MicroficheCopy}}<br />
'''The [[Royal Commission report day 14 page 1|previous day]] / [[Royal Commission report day 16 page 1|next day]] . . . Royal Commission [[Royal Commission Index|index]]'''
[[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:March 1504]] [[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:Commisioner Standish]] [[Category:history]]
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{{^|Original page location \documents\RoyalCommission\RC810504_15_03_3534.html}}
