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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence
[[Royal Commission report day 17 page 12|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 17 page 14|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 10/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 10/5/1881|day 17]])
'''Constable [[Const T Dowling|Dowling]] giving evidence'''
<span id="rc5110">[[#rc5110|5110]]</span> Do you mean he went with you to [[Mrs Margaret Byrne|Byrne's]] house?— Yes.
<span id="rc5111">[[#rc5111|5111]]</span> But you will not swear whether he was there at the time that Paddy Byrne rode away or not?— No.
<span id="rc5112">[[#rc5112|5112]]</span> But he was at his own house in the morning?— Yes.
<span id="rc5113">[[#rc5113|5113]]</span> ''By Mr. [[Ward|Ward]]'' . —Are you aware that there was any special object in his being away—that there was some reason for it—that he should not be actually where he should be stationed?— No, I am not.
<span id="rc5114">[[#rc5114|5114]]</span> You will swear that you positively heard me give that order that I told [[Const W Duross|Duross]] to tell Superintendent Hare a lie—that they were at the hut—
<span id="rc5115">[[#rc5115|5115]]</span> ''By the Commission''—He has not positively sworn that. (''To the Witness''.)—Did you meet Detective Ward when you came in?— On the way down to the hut we did.
<span id="rc5116">[[#rc5116|5116]]</span> Did he speak to you or to your party then?— Yes; he said, “Go on, and take up your posts at Byrne's house.”
<span id="rc5117">[[#rc5117|5117]]</span> Did any of you say it was not necessary for you to tell a lie—to make a misrepresentation?— Yes, I did.
<span id="rc5118">[[#rc5118|5118]]</span> ''By Mr. Ward''. —Within my hearing?— Well, I do not know you heard.
<span id="rc5119">[[#rc5119|5119]]</span> ''By the Commission''. —If Detective Ward said to you, “Go and take up your place at Byrne's house,” without saying anything else, would that be for the purpose of deceiving your officer; would that not be for the plain purpose of deceiving your officer, without anything else?— Yes.
<span id="rc5120">[[#rc5120|5120]]</span> Would not that be the effect?— Yes, it would.
<span id="rc5121">[[#rc5121|5121]]</span> ''By Detective Ward''. —Do you know what the orders were from me to the then in charge on any night at first?— No, I did not know the instructions we received at first.
<span id="rc5122">[[#rc5122|5122]]</span> How do you know then that it would be deceiving your officer; do you know whether the order was to go out at eight, nine, ten, or eleven, from me to the constable in charge?— No, I never got any instructions what time to go out or what time to come in in the morning.
<span id="rc5123">[[#rc5123|5123]]</span> ''By Mr Nicolson''. —The week before you were surprised at this post and Sherritt shot, did you receive any warning from head-quarters to be on the alert in case of surprise?— No.
<span id="rc5124">[[#rc5124|5124]]</span> ''By the Commission''. —Was it reported among your comrades that any order for special care had been promulgated among them; was it said among the men that there was to be special caution, or anything?— No, I never heard of it.
''Mr. Nicolson'' — May I ask for D13 to be produced and read?
''The Chairman'' — It is a letter from [[John Sherritt Jnr|John Sherritt]] to Mr. Inspector [[Hare|Hare]], Sheep-station, dated June 20th 1880 — “Dear Sir, — I would like very much to have seen you yesterday, as the outlaw Byrne does he frequently and sleeps in 's haystack on [[Sebastopol|Sebastopol]]. I cannot see how it is that he is not caught before now. His brother Patrick does be out all night and sleeps all day. Mrs. Byrne has their winter flannel and socks all ready to go to them, and she has provisions for six families stored by in her house. Sir, I don't want to dictate to a gentleman of your ability, but the plan I would suggest is this—for Patrick Byrne to be watched minutely day and night, as this is a particular time. As long as Aaron has the men down there, they will never do any good, as to my knowledge he lets too many of his mother-in-law's children to his house, and his mother-in-law herself will go there night after night, and will stop ometimes until two o'clock in the morning, and this will be the means of discovering the police, as the [[Mrs Ellen Barry|Barry]] children and the Byrne children go to the same school and are on friendly terms. Dear sir, the reason I send you these few lines is this—anything I say up here, they will not listen to it; therefore I would like to explain matters to yourself. I am certain before long they are going to make another raid; I have not heard yet what it is. I am very busy now, but if you don't succeed, sir, I have a grand plan made up that I think will carry through. I remain yours most respectfully, JOHN SHERRITT, junr.”
<span id="rc5125">[[#rc5125|5125]]</span> ''By the Commission (to the witness)''. —Do you remember any of those children coming about when you were there—the Barry children?— I remember one coming into the hut on one occasion.
<span id="rc5126">[[#rc5126|5126]]</span> Did you go out of that room when the children came in?— No.
<span id="rc5127">[[#rc5127|5127]]</span> Did you hear what was said?— No.
<span id="rc5128">[[#rc5128|5128]]</span> How many was “we”?— Four of us.
<span id="rc5129">[[#rc5129|5129]]</span> How old was the child?— About eight years.
<span id="rc5130">[[#rc5130|5130]]</span> Do you believe, from hearing that letter read, that the child was likely to meet the Byrne children at the school—do you know whether he did meet them at the school?— No, I could not say.
<span id="rc5131">[[#rc5131|5131]]</span> Do you know the haystack alluded to there—you used to go on duty to Byrne's house at night; do you know where that haystack is?— No.
<span id="rc5132">[[#rc5132|5132]]</span> Used Mrs. Barry, the mother-in-law, to stay at night, as that letter says, and go away towards morning?— Not that I am aware of.
<span id="rc5133">[[#rc5133|5133]]</span> Did she live permanently in the house with her daughter?— No, she did not; she visited her daughter every night very nearly.
<span id="rc5134">[[#rc5134|5l34]]</span> How did you know that?— I saw her coming in.....
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[[Royal Commission report day 17 page 12|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 17 page 14|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 10/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 10/5/1881|day 17]])
'''Constable [[Const T Dowling|Dowling]] giving evidence'''
<span id="rc5110">[[#rc5110|5110]]</span> Do you mean he went with you to [[Mrs Margaret Byrne|Byrne's]] house?— Yes.
<span id="rc5111">[[#rc5111|5111]]</span> But you will not swear whether he was there at the time that Paddy Byrne rode away or not?— No.
<span id="rc5112">[[#rc5112|5112]]</span> But he was at his own house in the morning?— Yes.
<span id="rc5113">[[#rc5113|5113]]</span> ''By Mr. [[Ward|Ward]]'' . —Are you aware that there was any special object in his being away—that there was some reason for it—that he should not be actually where he should be stationed?— No, I am not.
<span id="rc5114">[[#rc5114|5114]]</span> You will swear that you positively heard me give that order that I told [[Const W Duross|Duross]] to tell Superintendent Hare a lie—that they were at the hut—
<span id="rc5115">[[#rc5115|5115]]</span> ''By the Commission''—He has not positively sworn that. (''To the Witness''.)—Did you meet Detective Ward when you came in?— On the way down to the hut we did.
<span id="rc5116">[[#rc5116|5116]]</span> Did he speak to you or to your party then?— Yes; he said, “Go on, and take up your posts at Byrne's house.”
<span id="rc5117">[[#rc5117|5117]]</span> Did any of you say it was not necessary for you to tell a lie—to make a misrepresentation?— Yes, I did.
<span id="rc5118">[[#rc5118|5118]]</span> ''By Mr. Ward''. —Within my hearing?— Well, I do not know you heard.
<span id="rc5119">[[#rc5119|5119]]</span> ''By the Commission''. —If Detective Ward said to you, “Go and take up your place at Byrne's house,” without saying anything else, would that be for the purpose of deceiving your officer; would that not be for the plain purpose of deceiving your officer, without anything else?— Yes.
<span id="rc5120">[[#rc5120|5120]]</span> Would not that be the effect?— Yes, it would.
<span id="rc5121">[[#rc5121|5121]]</span> ''By Detective Ward''. —Do you know what the orders were from me to the then in charge on any night at first?— No, I did not know the instructions we received at first.
<span id="rc5122">[[#rc5122|5122]]</span> How do you know then that it would be deceiving your officer; do you know whether the order was to go out at eight, nine, ten, or eleven, from me to the constable in charge?— No, I never got any instructions what time to go out or what time to come in in the morning.
<span id="rc5123">[[#rc5123|5123]]</span> ''By Mr Nicolson''. —The week before you were surprised at this post and Sherritt shot, did you receive any warning from head-quarters to be on the alert in case of surprise?— No.
<span id="rc5124">[[#rc5124|5124]]</span> ''By the Commission''. —Was it reported among your comrades that any order for special care had been promulgated among them; was it said among the men that there was to be special caution, or anything?— No, I never heard of it.
''Mr. Nicolson'' — May I ask for D13 to be produced and read?
''The Chairman'' — It is a letter from [[John Sherritt Jnr|John Sherritt]] to Mr. Inspector [[Hare|Hare]], Sheep-station, dated June 20th 1880 — “Dear Sir, — I would like very much to have seen you yesterday, as the outlaw Byrne does he frequently and sleeps in 's haystack on [[Sebastopol|Sebastopol]]. I cannot see how it is that he is not caught before now. His brother Patrick does be out all night and sleeps all day. Mrs. Byrne has their winter flannel and socks all ready to go to them, and she has provisions for six families stored by in her house. Sir, I don't want to dictate to a gentleman of your ability, but the plan I would suggest is this—for Patrick Byrne to be watched minutely day and night, as this is a particular time. As long as Aaron has the men down there, they will never do any good, as to my knowledge he lets too many of his mother-in-law's children to his house, and his mother-in-law herself will go there night after night, and will stop ometimes until two o'clock in the morning, and this will be the means of discovering the police, as the [[Mrs Ellen Barry|Barry]] children and the Byrne children go to the same school and are on friendly terms. Dear sir, the reason I send you these few lines is this—anything I say up here, they will not listen to it; therefore I would like to explain matters to yourself. I am certain before long they are going to make another raid; I have not heard yet what it is. I am very busy now, but if you don't succeed, sir, I have a grand plan made up that I think will carry through. I remain yours most respectfully, JOHN SHERRITT, junr.”
<span id="rc5125">[[#rc5125|5125]]</span> ''By the Commission (to the witness)''. —Do you remember any of those children coming about when you were there—the Barry children?— I remember one coming into the hut on one occasion.
<span id="rc5126">[[#rc5126|5126]]</span> Did you go out of that room when the children came in?— No.
<span id="rc5127">[[#rc5127|5127]]</span> Did you hear what was said?— No.
<span id="rc5128">[[#rc5128|5128]]</span> How many was “we”?— Four of us.
<span id="rc5129">[[#rc5129|5129]]</span> How old was the child?— About eight years.
<span id="rc5130">[[#rc5130|5130]]</span> Do you believe, from hearing that letter read, that the child was likely to meet the Byrne children at the school—do you know whether he did meet them at the school?— No, I could not say.
<span id="rc5131">[[#rc5131|5131]]</span> Do you know the haystack alluded to there—you used to go on duty to Byrne's house at night; do you know where that haystack is?— No.
<span id="rc5132">[[#rc5132|5132]]</span> Used Mrs. Barry, the mother-in-law, to stay at night, as that letter says, and go away towards morning?— Not that I am aware of.
<span id="rc5133">[[#rc5133|5133]]</span> Did she live permanently in the house with her daughter?— No, she did not; she visited her daughter every night very nearly.
<span id="rc5134">[[#rc5134|5l34]]</span> How did you know that?— I saw her coming in.....
=== Previous page / Next page ===
<br />
{{MicroficheCopy}}<br />
'''The [[Royal Commission report day 16 page 1|previous day]] / [[Royal Commission report day 18 page 1|next day]] . . . Royal Commission [[Royal Commission Index|index]]'''
[[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:May 1510]] [[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:Commisioner Standish]] [[Category:history]]
MediaWiki:Sidebar
{{^|Original page location \documents\RoyalCommission\RC810510_17_13_5110.html}}
