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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence
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== The Royal Commission evidence for 13/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 13/5/1881|day 19]])
'''Sgt [[Whelan|Whelan]]''' '''giving evidence'''
6443 Is it the same oath to a constable as to an officer?— That I cannot say.
<span id="rc6444">[[#rc6444|6444]]</span> Is it the same to a sergeant as to a constable?— Yes. The sergeant is first sworn in as a constable, and he rises from that usually.
<span id="rc6445">[[#rc6445|6445]]</span> Were you re-sworn in as a sergeant on the passing of the new Police Act?— Yes, I think so
<span id="rc6446">[[#rc6446|6446]]</span> Do you know positively that I was sworn in?— I never knew it. I heard it from the evidence that I saw in the papers.
<span id="rc6447">[[#rc6447|6447]]</span> Oh ! no, I mean at the time I was up here?— I did not; but I thought it would be only reasonable, that you would have no power to act without it.
<span id="rc6448">[[#rc6448|6448]]</span> Did you ever, after Glenrowan, hear any policeman or officer question my being an officer of the police force?— No; I always understood you had charge of the troop that came across, and that you were an officer from Queensland .
6449 A volunteer?— No, not a volunteer.
<span id="rc6450">[[#rc6450|6450]]</span> I must be one or the other?— You would be sent by the Chief Commissioner of [[Queensland police|Queensland]] , and might be sent without being a volunteer.
<span id="rc6451">[[#rc6451|6451]]</span> I want to find out was there a doubt in the minds of any in the police force as to my being a Victorian officer of police—did any man state that do you?— I never knew you were appointed to the Victorian police. You were only remaining with the trackers till such time as the gang were captured. That was my idea, and I never heard anything to the contrary.
<span id="rc6452">[[#rc6452|6452]]</span> When Constable [[Kirkham|Kirkham]] was attached to the trackers, was I not his officer?— Yes, after King went away. I believe Mr. [[Sadleir|Sadleir]] gave you one of our men to take charge of them.
<span id="rc6453">[[#rc6453|6453]]</span> Could I have given any orders to that man if I had not 'been a recognized officer of the force?— Yes, decidedly. Mr. Sadleir had given you that man; you certainly took all powers over him then.
6454 That is of course in your opinion?— Yes.
<span id="rc6455">[[#rc6455|6455]]</span> Do you remember the police enquiry, after Glenrowan, reading or hearing of any evidence that Senior-Constable [[SConst John Kelly|Kelly]] gave?— Yes; but I do not remember.
<span id="rc6456">[[#rc6456|6456]]</span> If I remind you of the words he said you may remember it. He swore in his evidence that the firing, the heavy firing, the indiscriminate firing, was altogether on the part of the Queensland police— do you remember ever seeing that statement?— I am not sure.
<span id="rc6457">[[#rc6457|6457]]</span> I only saw it in the Argus, but do you remember hearing of it?— I do not remember now. Imight have. I never put anything in the papers.
<span id="rc6458">[[#rc6458|6458]]</span> Would it be the truth according to what you saw?— I could not say. There was no indiscriminate firing on the part of you and your men.
<span id="rc6459">[[#rc6459|6459]]</span> As far as you saw?— I did not see you or the boys from the position I was in, and I could not tell what they were doing at all.
<span id="rc6460">[[#rc6460|6460]]</span> Not the whole day?— No, not up to half-past two.
6461 After that?— There was very little firing after that.
6462 Were there not some heavy volleys while the house was being burnt?— Yes.
<span id="rc6463">[[#rc6463|6463]]</span> Do you think that the Queensland native police fired indiscriminately while you were there, more than the other people?— I did not see them.
<span id="rc6464">[[#rc6464|6464]]</span> You were asked if, in your opinion, I should not have been more active at Glenrowan, will you explain what you mean by being more active?
''[[Graves|Mr. Graves]]'' . —No, the inference is perfectly wrong; I asked whether he considered you were at all in charge at Glenrowan; then I said that, of course, if you were not a Victorian officer, would he consider that, if you were in charge, you ought to have been more active.
<span id="rc6465">[[#rc6465|6465]]</span> ''By Mr, O'Connor. —''You were asked if I should not have been more active at Glenrowan?— I do not recollect that question. He asked me if I thought you were in charge, and not Senior-Constable Kelly
<span id="rc6466">[[#rc6466|6466]]</span> I ask you now myself, from what you saw of me, do you consider I did as fair a share of work, as anybody else, as far as you saw?— Yes; I was not then in the neighborhood where you were, and it was impossible to see everything from my position.
6467 ''By the Commission. —''Then, in reality, your reply must be you cannot tell, because you did not see?— No, I did not see.....
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[[Royal Commission report day 19 page 21|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 19 page 23|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 13/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 13/5/1881|day 19]])
'''Sgt [[Whelan|Whelan]]''' '''giving evidence'''
6443 Is it the same oath to a constable as to an officer?— That I cannot say.
<span id="rc6444">[[#rc6444|6444]]</span> Is it the same to a sergeant as to a constable?— Yes. The sergeant is first sworn in as a constable, and he rises from that usually.
<span id="rc6445">[[#rc6445|6445]]</span> Were you re-sworn in as a sergeant on the passing of the new Police Act?— Yes, I think so
<span id="rc6446">[[#rc6446|6446]]</span> Do you know positively that I was sworn in?— I never knew it. I heard it from the evidence that I saw in the papers.
<span id="rc6447">[[#rc6447|6447]]</span> Oh ! no, I mean at the time I was up here?— I did not; but I thought it would be only reasonable, that you would have no power to act without it.
<span id="rc6448">[[#rc6448|6448]]</span> Did you ever, after Glenrowan, hear any policeman or officer question my being an officer of the police force?— No; I always understood you had charge of the troop that came across, and that you were an officer from Queensland .
6449 A volunteer?— No, not a volunteer.
<span id="rc6450">[[#rc6450|6450]]</span> I must be one or the other?— You would be sent by the Chief Commissioner of [[Queensland police|Queensland]] , and might be sent without being a volunteer.
<span id="rc6451">[[#rc6451|6451]]</span> I want to find out was there a doubt in the minds of any in the police force as to my being a Victorian officer of police—did any man state that do you?— I never knew you were appointed to the Victorian police. You were only remaining with the trackers till such time as the gang were captured. That was my idea, and I never heard anything to the contrary.
<span id="rc6452">[[#rc6452|6452]]</span> When Constable [[Kirkham|Kirkham]] was attached to the trackers, was I not his officer?— Yes, after King went away. I believe Mr. [[Sadleir|Sadleir]] gave you one of our men to take charge of them.
<span id="rc6453">[[#rc6453|6453]]</span> Could I have given any orders to that man if I had not 'been a recognized officer of the force?— Yes, decidedly. Mr. Sadleir had given you that man; you certainly took all powers over him then.
6454 That is of course in your opinion?— Yes.
<span id="rc6455">[[#rc6455|6455]]</span> Do you remember the police enquiry, after Glenrowan, reading or hearing of any evidence that Senior-Constable [[SConst John Kelly|Kelly]] gave?— Yes; but I do not remember.
<span id="rc6456">[[#rc6456|6456]]</span> If I remind you of the words he said you may remember it. He swore in his evidence that the firing, the heavy firing, the indiscriminate firing, was altogether on the part of the Queensland police— do you remember ever seeing that statement?— I am not sure.
<span id="rc6457">[[#rc6457|6457]]</span> I only saw it in the Argus, but do you remember hearing of it?— I do not remember now. Imight have. I never put anything in the papers.
<span id="rc6458">[[#rc6458|6458]]</span> Would it be the truth according to what you saw?— I could not say. There was no indiscriminate firing on the part of you and your men.
<span id="rc6459">[[#rc6459|6459]]</span> As far as you saw?— I did not see you or the boys from the position I was in, and I could not tell what they were doing at all.
<span id="rc6460">[[#rc6460|6460]]</span> Not the whole day?— No, not up to half-past two.
6461 After that?— There was very little firing after that.
6462 Were there not some heavy volleys while the house was being burnt?— Yes.
<span id="rc6463">[[#rc6463|6463]]</span> Do you think that the Queensland native police fired indiscriminately while you were there, more than the other people?— I did not see them.
<span id="rc6464">[[#rc6464|6464]]</span> You were asked if, in your opinion, I should not have been more active at Glenrowan, will you explain what you mean by being more active?
''[[Graves|Mr. Graves]]'' . —No, the inference is perfectly wrong; I asked whether he considered you were at all in charge at Glenrowan; then I said that, of course, if you were not a Victorian officer, would he consider that, if you were in charge, you ought to have been more active.
<span id="rc6465">[[#rc6465|6465]]</span> ''By Mr, O'Connor. —''You were asked if I should not have been more active at Glenrowan?— I do not recollect that question. He asked me if I thought you were in charge, and not Senior-Constable Kelly
<span id="rc6466">[[#rc6466|6466]]</span> I ask you now myself, from what you saw of me, do you consider I did as fair a share of work, as anybody else, as far as you saw?— Yes; I was not then in the neighborhood where you were, and it was impossible to see everything from my position.
6467 ''By the Commission. —''Then, in reality, your reply must be you cannot tell, because you did not see?— No, I did not see.....
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