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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence
[[Royal Commission report day 19 page 31|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 19 page 33|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 13/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 13/5/1881|day 19]])
'''[[Kirkham|Const Thomas Kirkham]] '''giving evidence''''''
<span id="rc6724">[[#rc6724|6724]]</span> Was it after the prisoners came out or before?— After.
<span id="rc6725">[[#rc6725|6725]]</span> Had you been in the drain all that time?— No, I kind not; I had been all round the house.
<span id="rc6726">[[#rc6726|6726]]</span> Were there any other policemen moving about?— They were changing positions.
<span id="rc6727">[[#rc6727|6727]]</span> Often?— Yes.
<span id="rc6728">[[#rc6728|6728]]</span> Have you any recollection of where Mr. [[Sadleir|Sadleir]] and Mr. [[O'Connor|O'Connor]] went to after the Kelly business?— No, I did not see much of them after that. I saw Mr. Sadleir on the railway station, sending telegrams away and so forth.
<span id="rc6729">[[#rc6729|6729]]</span> What time was that?— Shortly after Kelly was taken.
<span id="rc6730">[[#rc6730|6730]]</span> When did you see him again after that?— Next time I took particular notice of him I think was when the house was being fired in the afternoon.
<span id="rc6731">[[#rc6731|6731]]</span> I thought you said you saw him when the people came out of the house; did you see the people coming out?— Yes.
<span id="rc6732">[[#rc6732|6732]]</span> Did you see Mr. Sadleir then or Mr. O'Connor?— I think I saw Mr. Sadleir up where the men were being drafted, Constable [[Const Armstrong|Armstrong]] and Mr. Sadleir and one or two more. They were all lying on their bellies for safety, and they were being drafted.
<span id="rc6733">[[#rc6733|6733]]</span> ''By Mr. Sadleir''. —Who were lying that way?— The civilians.
<span id="rc6734">[[#rc6734|6734]]</span> ''By the Commission.'' —Did you receive any order from any of the officers after the women came out?— I do not remember receiving any orders particularly.
<span id="rc6735">[[#rc6735|6735]]</span> When you rushed up to the house at first, was it Mr. O'Connor who gave you orders to surround the house, or who?— No, Mr. Hare.
<span id="rc6736">[[#rc6736|6736]]</span> What did Mr. [[Hare|Hare]] do then—you did not see him after?— I saw him sitting on a log, and I asked him if the wound was much; and he said he was shot, and said, “For God's sake, surround the house, and do not let them get away; do the best you can with them.”
<span id="rc6737">[[#rc6737|6737]]</span> When Mr. Sadleir came on the ground was there any firing?— There was a little; my ammunition had gone.
<span id="rc6738">[[#rc6738|6738]]</span> The other constables were firing? I would not be sure about that. I think Mr. Sadleir when he came, gave us an order to fire a volley at the house, but to fire high.
<span id="rc6739">[[#rc6739|6739]]</span> Who first informed you there were any civilians in the house at all?— Constables [[Gascoigne|Gascoigne]] and [[Const W Phillips|Phillips]] went down about a man who came out of the front of the house, named [[Neil McHugh|McHugh]]. He said, I believe, “You can fire away for a month; the fellows are all in iron, and the place is full of civilians.”
<span id="rc6740">[[#rc6740|6740]]</span> Was there not a woman came out of the house, before Mr. Sadleir arrived, with a wounded child?— McHugh, a man, came out with the child.
<span id="rc6741">[[#rc6741|6741]]</span> What time was that?— I could not say.
<span id="rc6742">[[#rc6742|6742]]</span> Whose child was it?— I think it was [[Reardon|Reardon]]'s child.
<span id="rc6743">[[#rc6743|6743]]</span> You knew at that time that civilians were in the house?— I did not know there were till McHugh came out; Gascoigne and the others found it out from him.
<span id="rc6744">[[#rc6744|6744]]</span> Where did he come?— Straight in front of the house and down the railway line.
<span id="rc6745">[[#rc6745|6745]]</span> Towards the station?— Towards the gate-house.
<span id="rc6746">[[#rc6746|6746]]</span> Who was supposed to be in charge of the police at that time?— [[SConst John Kelly|Senior-Constable Kelly]], I suppose.
<span id="rc6747">[[#rc6747|6747]]</span> Kelly was one of the first party that arrived?— Yes.
<span id="rc6748">[[#rc6748|6748]]</span> And he seemed to take charge of the party after Mr. Hare was wounded, and was the most active in placing the men around the house?— When he came to me and I asked him for ammunition, he said he had been round to the back; and I asked if there were any men there, and he said, “Yes,” there were men at the back.
<span id="rc6749">[[#rc6749|6749]]</span> Did you not see Mr. Sadleir before the civilians came out, calling on the civilians to come out; you say you were in front of the house at that time?— No, I cannot say I did.
<span id="rc6750">[[#rc6750|6750]]</span> You rushed up as soon as they came out to where they were?— Yes.
<span id="rc6751">[[#rc6751|6751]]</span> And Mr. Sadleir was there then?— Yes.
<span id="rc6752">[[#rc6752|6752]]</span> And Mr. O Connor?— I cannot say I saw Mr. O'Connor then.
<span id="rc6753">[[#rc6753|6753]]</span> You got no orders from Mr. O'Connor, in any shape or form, but to remain in the drain?— He said, “Kirkham, I recommend you to stay here.”....
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[[Royal Commission report day 19 page 31|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 19 page 33|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 13/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 13/5/1881|day 19]])
'''[[Kirkham|Const Thomas Kirkham]] '''giving evidence''''''
<span id="rc6724">[[#rc6724|6724]]</span> Was it after the prisoners came out or before?— After.
<span id="rc6725">[[#rc6725|6725]]</span> Had you been in the drain all that time?— No, I kind not; I had been all round the house.
<span id="rc6726">[[#rc6726|6726]]</span> Were there any other policemen moving about?— They were changing positions.
<span id="rc6727">[[#rc6727|6727]]</span> Often?— Yes.
<span id="rc6728">[[#rc6728|6728]]</span> Have you any recollection of where Mr. [[Sadleir|Sadleir]] and Mr. [[O'Connor|O'Connor]] went to after the Kelly business?— No, I did not see much of them after that. I saw Mr. Sadleir on the railway station, sending telegrams away and so forth.
<span id="rc6729">[[#rc6729|6729]]</span> What time was that?— Shortly after Kelly was taken.
<span id="rc6730">[[#rc6730|6730]]</span> When did you see him again after that?— Next time I took particular notice of him I think was when the house was being fired in the afternoon.
<span id="rc6731">[[#rc6731|6731]]</span> I thought you said you saw him when the people came out of the house; did you see the people coming out?— Yes.
<span id="rc6732">[[#rc6732|6732]]</span> Did you see Mr. Sadleir then or Mr. O'Connor?— I think I saw Mr. Sadleir up where the men were being drafted, Constable [[Const Armstrong|Armstrong]] and Mr. Sadleir and one or two more. They were all lying on their bellies for safety, and they were being drafted.
<span id="rc6733">[[#rc6733|6733]]</span> ''By Mr. Sadleir''. —Who were lying that way?— The civilians.
<span id="rc6734">[[#rc6734|6734]]</span> ''By the Commission.'' —Did you receive any order from any of the officers after the women came out?— I do not remember receiving any orders particularly.
<span id="rc6735">[[#rc6735|6735]]</span> When you rushed up to the house at first, was it Mr. O'Connor who gave you orders to surround the house, or who?— No, Mr. Hare.
<span id="rc6736">[[#rc6736|6736]]</span> What did Mr. [[Hare|Hare]] do then—you did not see him after?— I saw him sitting on a log, and I asked him if the wound was much; and he said he was shot, and said, “For God's sake, surround the house, and do not let them get away; do the best you can with them.”
<span id="rc6737">[[#rc6737|6737]]</span> When Mr. Sadleir came on the ground was there any firing?— There was a little; my ammunition had gone.
<span id="rc6738">[[#rc6738|6738]]</span> The other constables were firing? I would not be sure about that. I think Mr. Sadleir when he came, gave us an order to fire a volley at the house, but to fire high.
<span id="rc6739">[[#rc6739|6739]]</span> Who first informed you there were any civilians in the house at all?— Constables [[Gascoigne|Gascoigne]] and [[Const W Phillips|Phillips]] went down about a man who came out of the front of the house, named [[Neil McHugh|McHugh]]. He said, I believe, “You can fire away for a month; the fellows are all in iron, and the place is full of civilians.”
<span id="rc6740">[[#rc6740|6740]]</span> Was there not a woman came out of the house, before Mr. Sadleir arrived, with a wounded child?— McHugh, a man, came out with the child.
<span id="rc6741">[[#rc6741|6741]]</span> What time was that?— I could not say.
<span id="rc6742">[[#rc6742|6742]]</span> Whose child was it?— I think it was [[Reardon|Reardon]]'s child.
<span id="rc6743">[[#rc6743|6743]]</span> You knew at that time that civilians were in the house?— I did not know there were till McHugh came out; Gascoigne and the others found it out from him.
<span id="rc6744">[[#rc6744|6744]]</span> Where did he come?— Straight in front of the house and down the railway line.
<span id="rc6745">[[#rc6745|6745]]</span> Towards the station?— Towards the gate-house.
<span id="rc6746">[[#rc6746|6746]]</span> Who was supposed to be in charge of the police at that time?— [[SConst John Kelly|Senior-Constable Kelly]], I suppose.
<span id="rc6747">[[#rc6747|6747]]</span> Kelly was one of the first party that arrived?— Yes.
<span id="rc6748">[[#rc6748|6748]]</span> And he seemed to take charge of the party after Mr. Hare was wounded, and was the most active in placing the men around the house?— When he came to me and I asked him for ammunition, he said he had been round to the back; and I asked if there were any men there, and he said, “Yes,” there were men at the back.
<span id="rc6749">[[#rc6749|6749]]</span> Did you not see Mr. Sadleir before the civilians came out, calling on the civilians to come out; you say you were in front of the house at that time?— No, I cannot say I did.
<span id="rc6750">[[#rc6750|6750]]</span> You rushed up as soon as they came out to where they were?— Yes.
<span id="rc6751">[[#rc6751|6751]]</span> And Mr. Sadleir was there then?— Yes.
<span id="rc6752">[[#rc6752|6752]]</span> And Mr. O Connor?— I cannot say I saw Mr. O'Connor then.
<span id="rc6753">[[#rc6753|6753]]</span> You got no orders from Mr. O'Connor, in any shape or form, but to remain in the drain?— He said, “Kirkham, I recommend you to stay here.”....
=== Previous page / Next page ===
<br />
{{MicroficheCopy}}<br />
'''The [[Royal Commission report day 18 page 1|previous day]] / [[Royal Commission report day 20 page 1|next day]] . . . Royal Commission [[Royal Commission Index|index]]'''
[[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:July 1513]] [[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:Commisioner Standish]] [[Category:history]]
MediaWiki:Sidebar
{{^|Original page location \documents\RoyalCommission\RC810513_19_32_6724.html}}
