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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence
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== The Royal Commission evidence for 13/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 13/5/1881|day 19]])
'''SConst Charles [[Johnston|Johnston]] '''giving evidence''''''
<span id="rc7238">[[#rc7238|7238]]</span> Did you speak to him them?— No; Mr. Sadleir said to me— “Well, if it does not take fire, it is not your fault. I do not know where I left your rifle.” I had left it with him when I went up. I think he said, “It is standing at the tree,” so I went round the rank of men to get my rifle.
<span id="rc7239">[[#rc7239|7239]]</span> Then you returned to the position opposite to where you had set fire to the building?— No; that was on the north side where I had left my rifle. I got down partially in front of the building then.
<span id="rc7240">[[#rc7240|7240]]</span> When did you come back to the position where you were able to knock away a portion of the building?— After we had got [[Cherry|Cherry]] out of the building.
<span id="rc7241">[[#rc7241|7241]]</span> That was after the priest had been in?— Yes, some time after.
<span id="rc7242">[[#rc7242|7242]]</span> How far were the bodies lying from the wall that you set fire to?— They were in a different room to the room I set fire to, back on the skillion, on the same side, but in another room, the skillion at the back.
<span id="rc7243">[[#rc7243|7243]]</span> Was there any window looking out from the end of the hotel that you set fire to?— No; there was one from the detached building.
<span id="rc7244">[[#rc7244|7244]]</span> They were not in that?— No; there were none in the and of the building. There was a window in the back.
<span id="rc7245">[[#rc7245|7245]]</span> Was it possible for you to have made a mistake about their being in armour or out of armour before they were dead?— I am satisfied they were out of armour before they were dead.
<span id="rc7246">[[#rc7246|7246]]</span> You saw the [[Dan Kelly|two burnt stumps]] that remained before they were removed?— Yes, I removed them myself.
<span id="rc7247">[[#rc7247|7247]]</span> Was any portion of the armour underneath those stumps?— No.
<span id="rc7248">[[#rc7248|7248]]</span> On which side was the [[Kelly's Armour|armour]]—on the innermost portion of the building?— Lying towards the door and bedstead, across the end of the building—that is where I set fire to the end of the bedstead—across, with the side to the end of the building; and the bodies were lying on the other side of the bed, between that and the door leading out on to the passage.
<span id="rc7249">[[#rc7249|7249]]</span> And where was the armour lying?— Between the bodies and the passage.
<span id="rc7250">[[#rc7250|7250]]</span> Altogether distinct and removed from the two stumps?— Yes, about a foot between the bodies and the armour.
<span id="rc7251">[[#rc7251|7251]]</span> Do you think it is possible for those two men to have died in armour, or either of them?— It was not possible.
<span id="rc7252">[[#rc7252|7252]]</span> You have no hesitation in saying now that those two men must, of their own accord, have taken off their armour before they died?— They did.
''Mr. [[Sadleir|Sadleir]]'' — Is not this examination departing from the purpose expressed to-day. If you go on to this, I must crave the permission of the Commission to cross-examine. I did not wish to do it.
''The Chairman'' — Has he stated anything materially different from other witnesses.
''Mr. Sadleir'' — He stated things very different from my own representation of the evidence.
<span id="rc7253">[[#rc7253|7253]]</span> ''By the Commission'' —Did you see anything of Mr. O'Connor from the time you arrived at eleven o'clock until you saw him in the position described by you behind the tree, when you asked about setting fire?— I did not.
<span id="rc7254">[[#rc7254|7254]]</span> Were you in a position, from eleven till a quarter to three, to see what was done by the two officers, Mr. Sadleir and Mr. O'Connor, between eleven and a quarter to three?— I saw Mr. Sadleir go round frequently amongst his men, but Mr. O'Connor I did-not see at all, except the time I have stated.
<span id="rc7255">[[#rc7255|7255]]</span> At the time you saw him had he the black trackers immediately under his control?— No.
<span id="rc7256">[[#rc7256|7256]]</span> Do you know where they were at the time?— No, I did not see them.
<span id="rc7257">[[#rc7257|7257]]</span> Did you see them?— I only saw them in the afternoon, after the place was burnt.
<span id="rc7258">[[#rc7258|7258]]</span> Not before?— Not before.
<span id="rc7259">[[#rc7259|7259]]</span> What time elapsed after the police went towards the hotel before they entered?— That was when the priest went in?
<span id="rc7260">[[#rc7260|7260]]</span> When the police went to the hotel, what time elapsed before their entry?— After the hotel was fired?....
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[[Royal Commission report day 19 page 48|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 19 page 50|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 13/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 13/5/1881|day 19]])
'''SConst Charles [[Johnston|Johnston]] '''giving evidence''''''
<span id="rc7238">[[#rc7238|7238]]</span> Did you speak to him them?— No; Mr. Sadleir said to me— “Well, if it does not take fire, it is not your fault. I do not know where I left your rifle.” I had left it with him when I went up. I think he said, “It is standing at the tree,” so I went round the rank of men to get my rifle.
<span id="rc7239">[[#rc7239|7239]]</span> Then you returned to the position opposite to where you had set fire to the building?— No; that was on the north side where I had left my rifle. I got down partially in front of the building then.
<span id="rc7240">[[#rc7240|7240]]</span> When did you come back to the position where you were able to knock away a portion of the building?— After we had got [[Cherry|Cherry]] out of the building.
<span id="rc7241">[[#rc7241|7241]]</span> That was after the priest had been in?— Yes, some time after.
<span id="rc7242">[[#rc7242|7242]]</span> How far were the bodies lying from the wall that you set fire to?— They were in a different room to the room I set fire to, back on the skillion, on the same side, but in another room, the skillion at the back.
<span id="rc7243">[[#rc7243|7243]]</span> Was there any window looking out from the end of the hotel that you set fire to?— No; there was one from the detached building.
<span id="rc7244">[[#rc7244|7244]]</span> They were not in that?— No; there were none in the and of the building. There was a window in the back.
<span id="rc7245">[[#rc7245|7245]]</span> Was it possible for you to have made a mistake about their being in armour or out of armour before they were dead?— I am satisfied they were out of armour before they were dead.
<span id="rc7246">[[#rc7246|7246]]</span> You saw the [[Dan Kelly|two burnt stumps]] that remained before they were removed?— Yes, I removed them myself.
<span id="rc7247">[[#rc7247|7247]]</span> Was any portion of the armour underneath those stumps?— No.
<span id="rc7248">[[#rc7248|7248]]</span> On which side was the [[Kelly's Armour|armour]]—on the innermost portion of the building?— Lying towards the door and bedstead, across the end of the building—that is where I set fire to the end of the bedstead—across, with the side to the end of the building; and the bodies were lying on the other side of the bed, between that and the door leading out on to the passage.
<span id="rc7249">[[#rc7249|7249]]</span> And where was the armour lying?— Between the bodies and the passage.
<span id="rc7250">[[#rc7250|7250]]</span> Altogether distinct and removed from the two stumps?— Yes, about a foot between the bodies and the armour.
<span id="rc7251">[[#rc7251|7251]]</span> Do you think it is possible for those two men to have died in armour, or either of them?— It was not possible.
<span id="rc7252">[[#rc7252|7252]]</span> You have no hesitation in saying now that those two men must, of their own accord, have taken off their armour before they died?— They did.
''Mr. [[Sadleir|Sadleir]]'' — Is not this examination departing from the purpose expressed to-day. If you go on to this, I must crave the permission of the Commission to cross-examine. I did not wish to do it.
''The Chairman'' — Has he stated anything materially different from other witnesses.
''Mr. Sadleir'' — He stated things very different from my own representation of the evidence.
<span id="rc7253">[[#rc7253|7253]]</span> ''By the Commission'' —Did you see anything of Mr. O'Connor from the time you arrived at eleven o'clock until you saw him in the position described by you behind the tree, when you asked about setting fire?— I did not.
<span id="rc7254">[[#rc7254|7254]]</span> Were you in a position, from eleven till a quarter to three, to see what was done by the two officers, Mr. Sadleir and Mr. O'Connor, between eleven and a quarter to three?— I saw Mr. Sadleir go round frequently amongst his men, but Mr. O'Connor I did-not see at all, except the time I have stated.
<span id="rc7255">[[#rc7255|7255]]</span> At the time you saw him had he the black trackers immediately under his control?— No.
<span id="rc7256">[[#rc7256|7256]]</span> Do you know where they were at the time?— No, I did not see them.
<span id="rc7257">[[#rc7257|7257]]</span> Did you see them?— I only saw them in the afternoon, after the place was burnt.
<span id="rc7258">[[#rc7258|7258]]</span> Not before?— Not before.
<span id="rc7259">[[#rc7259|7259]]</span> What time elapsed after the police went towards the hotel before they entered?— That was when the priest went in?
<span id="rc7260">[[#rc7260|7260]]</span> When the police went to the hotel, what time elapsed before their entry?— After the hotel was fired?....
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<br />
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'''The [[Royal Commission report day 18 page 1|previous day]] / [[Royal Commission report day 20 page 1|next day]] . . . Royal Commission [[Royal Commission Index|index]]'''
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