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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence
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== The Royal Commission evidence for 31/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 31/5/1881|day 23]])
'''Sgt [[Steele|Steele]] giving evidence'''
8911 Where do you think they were all the time?— I think they were in some unsuspected house. Some man's house we did not suspect. It is only a matter of opinion. Arrangements were altered in regard to the duty of [[Police Search Parties|search parties]] from time to time. I have some notes as to the duty.
<span id="rc8912">[[#rc8912|8912]]</span> Those search parties were very severe both on men and horses?— Yes. And then Mr. Nicolson thought it was better to let the men go out and watch houses they were likely to frequent, and we pursued that for a long time, and followed that till Mr. Hare relieved Mr. Nicolson. Mr. Hare asked me what we were doing, and he said he thought we could not do better than go on.
<span id="rc8913">[[#rc8913|8913]]</span> Do you approve of secret agency?— I think it was the only way to get the Kellys. We would not have got them for ten years, riding about.
<span id="rc8914">[[#rc8914|8914]]</span> Did you obtain any reliable information from them from the time that Mr. Nicolson took charge on the second occasion until the capture?— I did.
<span id="rc8915">[[#rc8915|8915]]</span> Of what nature?— Well, that they were seen coming to the house that was watched by this agent.
<span id="rc8916">[[#rc8916|8916]]</span> Give us the information?— I was told that they came on two occasions to a certain man's house.
<span id="rc8917">[[#rc8917|8917]]</span> Mr. Nicolson pursued this system of secret agency from the time he took charge in June or July 1879 for eleven months until April. Will you tell the Commission any information of your own knowledge that was received that was of any practical use?— I was under the impression that they had left the district altogether until this agent told me he saw two men coming along between eleven and twelve at night in a certain direction.
<span id="rc8918">[[#rc8918|8918]]</span> Then the secret agent gave information that they had not left the colony?— Yes.
<span id="rc8919">[[#rc8919|8919]]</span> And that proves that the system was important?— Yes.
<span id="rc8920">[[#rc8920|8920]]</span> He gave you information that two men had been seen?— Yes.
<span id="rc8921">[[#rc8921|8921]]</span> Did you ascertain whether those two were two of the Kelly outlaws?— I believe the man saw their arms.
<span id="rc8922">[[#rc8922|8922]]</span> This is what I want to get at. This man gave you information that he saw two persons whom he believed to be two of the gang. Did you ascertain that those persons seen were portion of the Kelly gang?— That we could not do unless we went to them.
<span id="rc8923">[[#rc8923|8923]]</span> Then, as a matter of fact those persons may or may not have been two of the Kelly outlaws?— I could not see who else could be armed.
<span id="rc8924">[[#rc8924|8924]]</span> He informed some one; did he inform you?— Yes.
<span id="rc8925">[[#rc8925|8925]]</span> What did you do in consequence?— Mr. Nicolson also knew about it, and we had men sent out (four men) to watch the place at night.
<span id="rc8926">[[#rc8926|8926]]</span> What was the result of that watch?— We did not see any one come at night; we watched for a month.
<span id="rc8927">[[#rc8927|8927]]</span> Did you discover in any way, for certain, that those two men were the outlaws?— I could not discover it unless I applied to the man.
<span id="rc8928">[[#rc8928|8928]]</span> You took his word that he saw two, who he believed were those, but as far as you knew from any information obtained by the police, you did not know that those two men were or were not the Kellys?— Not unless by what he told us. It was corroborated to a certain extent by the clothes that the outlaws had on, on the morning of the capture.
<span id="rc8929">[[#rc8929|8929]]</span> How long was this before the capture?— Not more than a couple of months or three.
<span id="rc8930">[[#rc8930|8930]]</span> With the exception of the information you have now given us do you know, as a matter of fact, that any information was obtained by the police, on or before the shooting of Aaron Sherritt, that the Kellys were in this country or out of it?— Only what I heard from Mr. Nicolson.
<span id="rc8931">[[#rc8931|8931]]</span> Of your own knowledge you were not in a position to say they were in this country or not?— No, not then.
<span id="rc8932">[[#rc8932|8932]]</span> Were you before, from the time that Mr. [[Nicolson|Nicolson]] took charge in July until the murder of Sherritt, could you take an oath at any time that those men were in the colony of Victoria?— I could not; I believed it from what Mr. Nicolson told me. Those agents worked with Mr. Nicolson, and he told me what he heard from the agents employed. Many of the agents he employed did not communicate with me.
<span id="rc8933">[[#rc8933|8933]]</span> In consequence of any information he gave you second hand, could you swear that the Kellys were in Victoria before the shooting of Sherritt?— Certainly not. I would not swear such a thing.
<span id="rc8934">[[#rc8934|8934]]</span> And there was no evidence?— I believe Mr. Nicolson had evidence. I was not told anything by the agents, except what was told to Mr. Nicolson–they worked with him. That was the only agent that told me direct, and I believed in what he said. I believed he was a thoroughly honest man.....
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[[Royal Commission report day 23 page 6|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 23 page 8|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 31/5/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 31/5/1881|day 23]])
'''Sgt [[Steele|Steele]] giving evidence'''
8911 Where do you think they were all the time?— I think they were in some unsuspected house. Some man's house we did not suspect. It is only a matter of opinion. Arrangements were altered in regard to the duty of [[Police Search Parties|search parties]] from time to time. I have some notes as to the duty.
<span id="rc8912">[[#rc8912|8912]]</span> Those search parties were very severe both on men and horses?— Yes. And then Mr. Nicolson thought it was better to let the men go out and watch houses they were likely to frequent, and we pursued that for a long time, and followed that till Mr. Hare relieved Mr. Nicolson. Mr. Hare asked me what we were doing, and he said he thought we could not do better than go on.
<span id="rc8913">[[#rc8913|8913]]</span> Do you approve of secret agency?— I think it was the only way to get the Kellys. We would not have got them for ten years, riding about.
<span id="rc8914">[[#rc8914|8914]]</span> Did you obtain any reliable information from them from the time that Mr. Nicolson took charge on the second occasion until the capture?— I did.
<span id="rc8915">[[#rc8915|8915]]</span> Of what nature?— Well, that they were seen coming to the house that was watched by this agent.
<span id="rc8916">[[#rc8916|8916]]</span> Give us the information?— I was told that they came on two occasions to a certain man's house.
<span id="rc8917">[[#rc8917|8917]]</span> Mr. Nicolson pursued this system of secret agency from the time he took charge in June or July 1879 for eleven months until April. Will you tell the Commission any information of your own knowledge that was received that was of any practical use?— I was under the impression that they had left the district altogether until this agent told me he saw two men coming along between eleven and twelve at night in a certain direction.
<span id="rc8918">[[#rc8918|8918]]</span> Then the secret agent gave information that they had not left the colony?— Yes.
<span id="rc8919">[[#rc8919|8919]]</span> And that proves that the system was important?— Yes.
<span id="rc8920">[[#rc8920|8920]]</span> He gave you information that two men had been seen?— Yes.
<span id="rc8921">[[#rc8921|8921]]</span> Did you ascertain whether those two were two of the Kelly outlaws?— I believe the man saw their arms.
<span id="rc8922">[[#rc8922|8922]]</span> This is what I want to get at. This man gave you information that he saw two persons whom he believed to be two of the gang. Did you ascertain that those persons seen were portion of the Kelly gang?— That we could not do unless we went to them.
<span id="rc8923">[[#rc8923|8923]]</span> Then, as a matter of fact those persons may or may not have been two of the Kelly outlaws?— I could not see who else could be armed.
<span id="rc8924">[[#rc8924|8924]]</span> He informed some one; did he inform you?— Yes.
<span id="rc8925">[[#rc8925|8925]]</span> What did you do in consequence?— Mr. Nicolson also knew about it, and we had men sent out (four men) to watch the place at night.
<span id="rc8926">[[#rc8926|8926]]</span> What was the result of that watch?— We did not see any one come at night; we watched for a month.
<span id="rc8927">[[#rc8927|8927]]</span> Did you discover in any way, for certain, that those two men were the outlaws?— I could not discover it unless I applied to the man.
<span id="rc8928">[[#rc8928|8928]]</span> You took his word that he saw two, who he believed were those, but as far as you knew from any information obtained by the police, you did not know that those two men were or were not the Kellys?— Not unless by what he told us. It was corroborated to a certain extent by the clothes that the outlaws had on, on the morning of the capture.
<span id="rc8929">[[#rc8929|8929]]</span> How long was this before the capture?— Not more than a couple of months or three.
<span id="rc8930">[[#rc8930|8930]]</span> With the exception of the information you have now given us do you know, as a matter of fact, that any information was obtained by the police, on or before the shooting of Aaron Sherritt, that the Kellys were in this country or out of it?— Only what I heard from Mr. Nicolson.
<span id="rc8931">[[#rc8931|8931]]</span> Of your own knowledge you were not in a position to say they were in this country or not?— No, not then.
<span id="rc8932">[[#rc8932|8932]]</span> Were you before, from the time that Mr. [[Nicolson|Nicolson]] took charge in July until the murder of Sherritt, could you take an oath at any time that those men were in the colony of Victoria?— I could not; I believed it from what Mr. Nicolson told me. Those agents worked with Mr. Nicolson, and he told me what he heard from the agents employed. Many of the agents he employed did not communicate with me.
<span id="rc8933">[[#rc8933|8933]]</span> In consequence of any information he gave you second hand, could you swear that the Kellys were in Victoria before the shooting of Sherritt?— Certainly not. I would not swear such a thing.
<span id="rc8934">[[#rc8934|8934]]</span> And there was no evidence?— I believe Mr. Nicolson had evidence. I was not told anything by the agents, except what was told to Mr. Nicolson–they worked with him. That was the only agent that told me direct, and I believed in what he said. I believed he was a thoroughly honest man.....
=== Previous page / Next page ===
<br />
{{MicroficheCopy}}<br />
'''The [[Royal Commission report day 22 page 1|previous day]] / [[Royal Commission report day 24 page 1|next day]] . . . Royal Commission [[Royal Commission Index|index]]'''
[[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:November 1531]] [[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:Commisioner Standish]] [[Category:history]]
MediaWiki:Sidebar
{{^|Original page location \documents\RoyalCommission\RC810531_23_07_8911.html}}
