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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission Report
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== The Royal Commission evidence for 2/6/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 2/6/1881|day 25]])
[[../../people/peD_G/gascoignePmc.html|'''Const Charles Gascoigne''']] '''giving evidence'''
<span id="rc9822">[[#rc9822|9822]]</span> Do you think they supply you with sufficient ammunition for practice?— No. I was seven months and only had four shots when I had a new rifle, a Martini-Henry, that I never used before.
<span id="rc9823">[[#rc9823|9823]]</span> Would it be better if the police had more ammunition, and a regular system of practice, the same as is now indulged in by the volunteers?— Yes.
<span id="rc9824">[[#rc9824|9824]]</span> Then it is a false economy not to give it to them?— Some of the men could not hit a haystack, and some are splendid shots. I got eighteen rounds when I received the Henry, and Sergeant [[Whelan|Whelan]] asked me for six rounds; and when I went to [[Violet Town|Violet Town]] I fired those four shots. I never got any from the Government unless I bought it, except when Mr. [[Nicolson|Nicolson]] took me out in the ranges to have a shot in a party. There was a cup given, I believe, by Mrs. Nicolson. I went out with the party, and I beat them the first time, and I never had a shot for seven months.
<span id="rc9825">[[#rc9825|9825]]</span> It is often the practice that the police supply their own ammunition for practice?— Yes. There is a statement made by Jacob Wilson, that his son had a selection at Glenrowan, and that sympathizers were annoying him at night, and threatening to shoot his son; and he came to the police station to get assistance, and the officer in charge told him they had enough to do to take care of themselves. [[Const Glenny|Glenny]] was the officer in charge. I happened to be there present, and happened to be at the son, “Holy Wilson's” place, close to the police camp, and there were a lot of men knocking about there; they were fencing a man's place, and I believe the statement made is not correct. He used to get frightened by a young man named Cass, living a hundred yards off. He used to try and frighten Wilson . Wilson was trying to get into the police. I never saw any signs of anything, and I was round night and day.
<span id="rc9826">[[#rc9826|9826]]</span> This is only your opinion?— Yes.
''The witness withdrew.''
[[../../people/peC/chomleyPsup.html|'''Sup Hussey Malone Chomle''']] [[../../people/peC/chomleyPsup.html|'''y''']] sworn and examined
<span id="rc9827">[[#rc9827|9827]]</span> ''By the Commission''— There are some papers laid before the Commission, and I have been looking over them. They are relative to the exact position that Mr.[[O'Connor|O'Connor]] occupied under this Government?— Yes.
<span id="rc9828">[[#rc9828|9828]]</span> Was he paid, to your knowledge, by the Victorian Government for his services?— Yes.
<span id="rc9829">[[#rc9829|9829]]</span> Can you say if there is any correspondence as to the exact nature of his duties and position in the department?— I could find no papers whatever, or scarcely any, in my office. I find there is apparently an official correspondence here between Mr. O'Connor and his Government, in which he must have asked for copies of correspondence between the Police Department here and his department in [[Queensland police|Brisbane]] , and they say they enclose copies of the correspondence. I cannot, in this correspondence, see any single thing about the position or anything else of Mr. O'Connor. Here is a telegram from the Chief Commissioner of Police, Brisbane , dated 17/2/79 – “C. C. Police (only), Benalla. The Colonial Secretary approves of my sending [[Police Trackers|trackers]], provided they volunteer for the service, receive extra pay, and are assured of a fair share of reward offered, provided their efforts tend to capture of gang; our rate of pay is three pounds per month. No hope of keeping matter from newspapers. Am wiring north about volunteers; there is no difficulty. Reply ''re'' pay, &c.” Would that pay there mentioned, in your opinion, apply solely to the black trackers?— Yes; that is the three pounds a month.
<span id="rc9830">[[#rc9830|9830]]</span> Can you say that there is no defined arrangement as to Mr. O'Connor's position?— I understood Mr. O'Connor was to get double the pay he received in Queensland from this Government. The actual pay he received from this Government was, I believe, £360 a year, and travelling expenses attached to the rank he held.
<span id="rc9831">[[#rc9831|9831]]</span> What was that?— Sub-Inspector.
<span id="rc9832">[[#rc9832|9832]]</span> He was then a volunteer from their service?— I cannot say.
<span id="rc9833">[[#rc9833|9833]]</span> How do you arrive at this knowledge. Is it by official documents; if so, we want to get them?— I think I heard the most of it from Mr. [[Henry Moors|Moors]]. To tell the honest truth, I was not in the office at all until the last month or two. There are no official documents in our office about it.
<span id="rc9834">[[#rc9834|9834]]</span> I can find none about it except one, where it says he and his party of trackers are not to be separated?— I have made enquiry, and I find that most of that correspondence was from the Chief Secretary's office.
<span id="rc9835">[[#rc9835|9835]]</span> Will it be found there?— I think it might, if there is any; but the Under-Secretary is ill, and the Acting Under-Secretary; they are both away ill now.
<span id="rc9836">[[#rc9836|9836]]</span> Do you consider it is very vague, the information on this subject?— Very vague.
<span id="rc9837">[[#rc9837|9837]]</span> Unusually vague?— Yes; it might have been much more explicit.....
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[[Royal Commission report day 25 page 12|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 25 page 14|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 2/6/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 2/6/1881|day 25]])
[[../../people/peD_G/gascoignePmc.html|'''Const Charles Gascoigne''']] '''giving evidence'''
<span id="rc9822">[[#rc9822|9822]]</span> Do you think they supply you with sufficient ammunition for practice?— No. I was seven months and only had four shots when I had a new rifle, a Martini-Henry, that I never used before.
<span id="rc9823">[[#rc9823|9823]]</span> Would it be better if the police had more ammunition, and a regular system of practice, the same as is now indulged in by the volunteers?— Yes.
<span id="rc9824">[[#rc9824|9824]]</span> Then it is a false economy not to give it to them?— Some of the men could not hit a haystack, and some are splendid shots. I got eighteen rounds when I received the Henry, and Sergeant [[Whelan|Whelan]] asked me for six rounds; and when I went to [[Violet Town|Violet Town]] I fired those four shots. I never got any from the Government unless I bought it, except when Mr. [[Nicolson|Nicolson]] took me out in the ranges to have a shot in a party. There was a cup given, I believe, by Mrs. Nicolson. I went out with the party, and I beat them the first time, and I never had a shot for seven months.
<span id="rc9825">[[#rc9825|9825]]</span> It is often the practice that the police supply their own ammunition for practice?— Yes. There is a statement made by Jacob Wilson, that his son had a selection at Glenrowan, and that sympathizers were annoying him at night, and threatening to shoot his son; and he came to the police station to get assistance, and the officer in charge told him they had enough to do to take care of themselves. [[Const Glenny|Glenny]] was the officer in charge. I happened to be there present, and happened to be at the son, “Holy Wilson's” place, close to the police camp, and there were a lot of men knocking about there; they were fencing a man's place, and I believe the statement made is not correct. He used to get frightened by a young man named Cass, living a hundred yards off. He used to try and frighten Wilson . Wilson was trying to get into the police. I never saw any signs of anything, and I was round night and day.
<span id="rc9826">[[#rc9826|9826]]</span> This is only your opinion?— Yes.
''The witness withdrew.''
[[../../people/peC/chomleyPsup.html|'''Sup Hussey Malone Chomle''']] [[../../people/peC/chomleyPsup.html|'''y''']] sworn and examined
<span id="rc9827">[[#rc9827|9827]]</span> ''By the Commission''— There are some papers laid before the Commission, and I have been looking over them. They are relative to the exact position that Mr.[[O'Connor|O'Connor]] occupied under this Government?— Yes.
<span id="rc9828">[[#rc9828|9828]]</span> Was he paid, to your knowledge, by the Victorian Government for his services?— Yes.
<span id="rc9829">[[#rc9829|9829]]</span> Can you say if there is any correspondence as to the exact nature of his duties and position in the department?— I could find no papers whatever, or scarcely any, in my office. I find there is apparently an official correspondence here between Mr. O'Connor and his Government, in which he must have asked for copies of correspondence between the Police Department here and his department in [[Queensland police|Brisbane]] , and they say they enclose copies of the correspondence. I cannot, in this correspondence, see any single thing about the position or anything else of Mr. O'Connor. Here is a telegram from the Chief Commissioner of Police, Brisbane , dated 17/2/79 – “C. C. Police (only), Benalla. The Colonial Secretary approves of my sending [[Police Trackers|trackers]], provided they volunteer for the service, receive extra pay, and are assured of a fair share of reward offered, provided their efforts tend to capture of gang; our rate of pay is three pounds per month. No hope of keeping matter from newspapers. Am wiring north about volunteers; there is no difficulty. Reply ''re'' pay, &c.” Would that pay there mentioned, in your opinion, apply solely to the black trackers?— Yes; that is the three pounds a month.
<span id="rc9830">[[#rc9830|9830]]</span> Can you say that there is no defined arrangement as to Mr. O'Connor's position?— I understood Mr. O'Connor was to get double the pay he received in Queensland from this Government. The actual pay he received from this Government was, I believe, £360 a year, and travelling expenses attached to the rank he held.
<span id="rc9831">[[#rc9831|9831]]</span> What was that?— Sub-Inspector.
<span id="rc9832">[[#rc9832|9832]]</span> He was then a volunteer from their service?— I cannot say.
<span id="rc9833">[[#rc9833|9833]]</span> How do you arrive at this knowledge. Is it by official documents; if so, we want to get them?— I think I heard the most of it from Mr. [[Henry Moors|Moors]]. To tell the honest truth, I was not in the office at all until the last month or two. There are no official documents in our office about it.
<span id="rc9834">[[#rc9834|9834]]</span> I can find none about it except one, where it says he and his party of trackers are not to be separated?— I have made enquiry, and I find that most of that correspondence was from the Chief Secretary's office.
<span id="rc9835">[[#rc9835|9835]]</span> Will it be found there?— I think it might, if there is any; but the Under-Secretary is ill, and the Acting Under-Secretary; they are both away ill now.
<span id="rc9836">[[#rc9836|9836]]</span> Do you consider it is very vague, the information on this subject?— Very vague.
<span id="rc9837">[[#rc9837|9837]]</span> Unusually vague?— Yes; it might have been much more explicit.....
=== Previous page / Next page ===
<br />
{{MicroficheCopy}}<br />
'''The [[Royal Commission report day 24 page 1|previous day]] / [[Royal Commission report day 26 page 1|next day]] . . . Royal Commission [[Royal Commission Index|index]]''' [[RC_index.html|RC_index.html]]
[[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:January 1602]] [[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:Commisioner Standish]] [[Category:history]]
MediaWiki:Sidebar
{{^|Original page location \documents\RoyalCommission\RC810602_25_13_9822.html}}
