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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence
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== The Royal Commission evidence for 16/6/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 16/6/1881|day 31]])
'''Sup John [[Sadleir|Sadleir]] giving evidence'''
<span id="rc11944">[[#rc11944|11944]]</span> When the department asked me?— You had an objection to parting from them.
<span id="rc11945">[[#rc11945|11945]]</span> But for the loan of them to work?— No; we missed horses from our paddocks, and you gave them for that and any business of that sort.
<span id="rc11946">[[#rc11946|11946]]</span> Did I not send men to Sandhurst at one time?— Yes; there were two men started for Sandhurst , and did their work and came back again.
<span id="rc11947">[[#rc11947|11947]]</span> Is Constable [[Kirkham|Kirkham]], in your opinion, correct when he said he was never under my command?— He was under your command all the time.
<span id="rc11948">[[#rc11948|11948]]</span> Could he have misunderstood his instructions when you and Mr. [[Nicolson|Nicolson]] handed him over to me?— I do not remember what the instructions actually were, but I know what his position was; he was placed entirely under your orders.
<span id="rc11949">[[#rc11949|11949]]</span> Did he not take all his orders from me?— Yes, all his orders. If he came to me for anything connected with your party, I always insisted that it should be with your knowledge and authority.
<span id="rc11950">[[#rc11950|11950]]</span> Did you ever hear that he questioned an order from me?— Never; and all the officers looked upon you as a brother officer in the service; and I believe the constables all looked upon you in the position as an officer.
<span id="rc11951">[[#rc11951|11951]]</span> Then it was impossible for Constable Kirkham to doubt that I was his immediately superior officer?— Of course, Kirkham is technically correct in saying you were not an officer of Victorian police; but we never looked upon it in that light. As a proof of that, the moment I landed at [[Glenrowan|Glenrowan]], knowing we had always conferred with you as an officer and looked upon you as in that position, I went straight to you; and that was my object in going straight to you.
<span id="rc11952">[[#rc11952|11952]]</span> Do you consider Constable Kirkham qualified to give an opinion as to the capabilities of my men in opposition to my opinion?— Certainly not. I think Constable Kirkham is a very poor man with the trackers. He is a very good tempered man, and manages to get on very well with them, but I do not think he has the art of guiding them in their work.
<span id="rc11953">[[#rc11953|11953]]</span> Did you ever notice a want of courage on the part of my men who were out on those expeditions?— No. I think there was a difference between them, but that was more from what I heard from yourself. I never noticed a want of courage.
<span id="rc11954">[[#rc11954|11954]]</span> They were always willing to go to the front?— Yes. There were two or three of those men very brave men. There is no question at all about it.
<span id="rc11955">[[#rc11955|11955]]</span> Do you remember coming to the in my position at the Glenrowan fight?— Yes, I went straight to you.
<span id="rc11956">[[#rc11956|11956]]</span> You have a perfect recollection of the position?— Yes.
<span id="rc11957">[[#rc11957|11957]]</span> Did you fire from this position?— I fired myself from that position at the outlaws, when they came out (or what we supposed to be the outlaws) striking on their armour, making a noise. At this time I did not believe they were in armour, and I fired from that position myself, on them, with a Winchester repeating rifle.
<span id="rc11958">[[#rc11958|11958]]</span> Constable [[Const Daniel Barry|Barry]] swore that my position was seven feet deep, any portion of it, and you could only see the roof of the hotel—is that correct?— That is not correct. You might find a place seven feet deep, within a yard or two of where we were, but there was a second bank in the drain, where I stood, and sat at intervals in speaking to you.
<span id="rc11959">[[#rc11959|11959]]</span> Was there a tree or stump, or any other covering front of the house, between these drains?— Nothing, except the posts of the fence, which was not a covering.
<span id="rc11960">[[#rc11960|11960]]</span> When you sent for me, did I not at once come to you?— Yes, when I sent the constable for you.
<span id="rc11961">[[#rc11961|11961]]</span> Did I not accompany you round the line of men on several occasions?— You were mostly in my company the rest of the day, after that, around the men.
<span id="rc11962">[[#rc11962|11962]]</span> Did I not assist you in advice, and so on?— Yes, I communicated with you fully, and conferred with you in every thing.
<span id="rc11963">[[#rc11963|11963]]</span> Do you remember the conversation you had with Captain [[Standish|Standish]] the day after Glenrowan, when he ordered you to put [[Hare|Mr. Hare]]'s name in general orders?— That is a matter of complaint by myself, if anything is said.
<span id="rc11964">[[#rc11964|11964]]</span> It is in reference to my accuracy. Did you not ask for my name and yours to accompany Mr. Hare's?— Will the Commission say whether I am to answer that. I wish to conform to the rule established by the Commission, that is, when it is unnecessary to speak unpleasantly of another absent person that it should not be done; and I asked Mr. O'Connor to avoid making use of me in that way.....
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[[Royal Commission report day 31 page 4|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 31 page 6|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 16/6/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 16/6/1881|day 31]])
'''Sup John [[Sadleir|Sadleir]] giving evidence'''
<span id="rc11944">[[#rc11944|11944]]</span> When the department asked me?— You had an objection to parting from them.
<span id="rc11945">[[#rc11945|11945]]</span> But for the loan of them to work?— No; we missed horses from our paddocks, and you gave them for that and any business of that sort.
<span id="rc11946">[[#rc11946|11946]]</span> Did I not send men to Sandhurst at one time?— Yes; there were two men started for Sandhurst , and did their work and came back again.
<span id="rc11947">[[#rc11947|11947]]</span> Is Constable [[Kirkham|Kirkham]], in your opinion, correct when he said he was never under my command?— He was under your command all the time.
<span id="rc11948">[[#rc11948|11948]]</span> Could he have misunderstood his instructions when you and Mr. [[Nicolson|Nicolson]] handed him over to me?— I do not remember what the instructions actually were, but I know what his position was; he was placed entirely under your orders.
<span id="rc11949">[[#rc11949|11949]]</span> Did he not take all his orders from me?— Yes, all his orders. If he came to me for anything connected with your party, I always insisted that it should be with your knowledge and authority.
<span id="rc11950">[[#rc11950|11950]]</span> Did you ever hear that he questioned an order from me?— Never; and all the officers looked upon you as a brother officer in the service; and I believe the constables all looked upon you in the position as an officer.
<span id="rc11951">[[#rc11951|11951]]</span> Then it was impossible for Constable Kirkham to doubt that I was his immediately superior officer?— Of course, Kirkham is technically correct in saying you were not an officer of Victorian police; but we never looked upon it in that light. As a proof of that, the moment I landed at [[Glenrowan|Glenrowan]], knowing we had always conferred with you as an officer and looked upon you as in that position, I went straight to you; and that was my object in going straight to you.
<span id="rc11952">[[#rc11952|11952]]</span> Do you consider Constable Kirkham qualified to give an opinion as to the capabilities of my men in opposition to my opinion?— Certainly not. I think Constable Kirkham is a very poor man with the trackers. He is a very good tempered man, and manages to get on very well with them, but I do not think he has the art of guiding them in their work.
<span id="rc11953">[[#rc11953|11953]]</span> Did you ever notice a want of courage on the part of my men who were out on those expeditions?— No. I think there was a difference between them, but that was more from what I heard from yourself. I never noticed a want of courage.
<span id="rc11954">[[#rc11954|11954]]</span> They were always willing to go to the front?— Yes. There were two or three of those men very brave men. There is no question at all about it.
<span id="rc11955">[[#rc11955|11955]]</span> Do you remember coming to the in my position at the Glenrowan fight?— Yes, I went straight to you.
<span id="rc11956">[[#rc11956|11956]]</span> You have a perfect recollection of the position?— Yes.
<span id="rc11957">[[#rc11957|11957]]</span> Did you fire from this position?— I fired myself from that position at the outlaws, when they came out (or what we supposed to be the outlaws) striking on their armour, making a noise. At this time I did not believe they were in armour, and I fired from that position myself, on them, with a Winchester repeating rifle.
<span id="rc11958">[[#rc11958|11958]]</span> Constable [[Const Daniel Barry|Barry]] swore that my position was seven feet deep, any portion of it, and you could only see the roof of the hotel—is that correct?— That is not correct. You might find a place seven feet deep, within a yard or two of where we were, but there was a second bank in the drain, where I stood, and sat at intervals in speaking to you.
<span id="rc11959">[[#rc11959|11959]]</span> Was there a tree or stump, or any other covering front of the house, between these drains?— Nothing, except the posts of the fence, which was not a covering.
<span id="rc11960">[[#rc11960|11960]]</span> When you sent for me, did I not at once come to you?— Yes, when I sent the constable for you.
<span id="rc11961">[[#rc11961|11961]]</span> Did I not accompany you round the line of men on several occasions?— You were mostly in my company the rest of the day, after that, around the men.
<span id="rc11962">[[#rc11962|11962]]</span> Did I not assist you in advice, and so on?— Yes, I communicated with you fully, and conferred with you in every thing.
<span id="rc11963">[[#rc11963|11963]]</span> Do you remember the conversation you had with Captain [[Standish|Standish]] the day after Glenrowan, when he ordered you to put [[Hare|Mr. Hare]]'s name in general orders?— That is a matter of complaint by myself, if anything is said.
<span id="rc11964">[[#rc11964|11964]]</span> It is in reference to my accuracy. Did you not ask for my name and yours to accompany Mr. Hare's?— Will the Commission say whether I am to answer that. I wish to conform to the rule established by the Commission, that is, when it is unnecessary to speak unpleasantly of another absent person that it should not be done; and I asked Mr. O'Connor to avoid making use of me in that way.....
=== Previous page / Next page ===
<br />
{{MicroficheCopy}}<br />
'''The [[Royal Commission report day 30 page 1|previous day]] / [[Royal Commission report day 32 page 1|next day]] . . . Royal Commission [[Royal Commission Index|index]]''' [[RC_index.html|RC_index.html]]
[[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:July 1616]] [[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:Commisioner Standish]] [[Category:history]]
MediaWiki:Sidebar
{{^|Original page location \documents\RoyalCommission\RC810616_31_05_11944.html}}
