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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence
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== The Royal Commission evidence for 3/8/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 3/8/1881|day 42]])
'''Mr James [[James Wallace|Wallace]]''' '''giving evidence'''
<span id="rc14659">[[#rc14659|14659]]</span> Did he say Mr. [[Nicolson|Nicolson]] had been enquiring about it?— Yes; he said he had been enquiring about it frequently and persistently.
<span id="rc14660">[[#rc14660|14660]]</span> “He remarked that [[Ward|Ward]] and he were on bad terms, and that you negotiated with him personally now”?— Yes, he made that remark to me.
<span id="rc14661">[[#rc14661|14661]]</span> And that he had no intercourse at that time at all with Ward?— That is what I understood him to say. The negotiation was carried on through Mr. Nicolson personally.
<span id="rc14662">[[#rc14662|14662]]</span> Then from that we would understand that he and Ward had quarrelled?— Yes.
<span id="rc14663">[[#rc14663|14663]]</span> Did he ever make any statement to you that he would drop you a few hundred notes?— No; he made some offer with regard to money, which I declined; I think it was £50—a loan of some money, that was it. He knew I was in financial difficulties; that was the reason he made the offer, I suppose.
<span id="rc14664">[[#rc14664|14664]]</span> Would you tell the circumstances under which such an offer as that was made?— No, I could not; I have only a hazy recollection of it; he said he had plenty of money, and if I were short he could lend me some.
<span id="rc14665">[[#rc14665|14665]]</span> This is a long letter you wrote about Tom Burke and his application for land?— Yes.
<span id="rc14666">[[#rc14666|14666]]</span> Have you still the same opinion of Tom Burke that you expressed there?— I have still.
<span id="rc14667">[[#rc14667|14667]]</span> And of the other members of the family?— Ned Burke I considered certainly had tendencies in the way of sympatbizing, but not the others.
<span id="rc14668">[[#rc14668|14668]]</span> “He wished me to write to [[Graves|Graves]] , [[Gaunson, David|Gaunson]], and Cooper, M.L.A., and to Reid, Wallace, and Wilson , M.L.C. and also to draw out a petition to Parliament “?— That is perfectly correct.
<span id="rc14669">[[#rc14669|14669]]</span> You mention in this letter, “ Barry said that if he was Byrne—I interviewed Jack Barry, of [[Hedi|Hedi]], last night. Had a conversation in re the outlaws; he was rather more reticent than he usually is, and would let out nothing tangible. I am sure he knows something about them, but I think it is indirectly through Ned Burke . Barry said that if he was Byrne, he would ride into Beechworth and shoot Ward at the first opportunity. I asked him why? What reason had Byrne to dislike Ward more than another? He replied that Ward had seduced Byrne's sister [[Catherine Byrne, Kate Byrne|Kate]] . I asked him how he ( Barry ) knew. He said he knew all about it, that the information had come through Byrne himself, and that he got to know it indirectly.” Was there anything of that going about with reference to the police or detectives in the district?— Only that solitary instance which I mention.
14670 And he actually made that statement to you?— Yes.
14671 You appear to have carefully reported to Mr. Nicolson all that you heard about Ward?— Yes.
14672 Was there a special kindly feeling existing between you?— No, I think not.
<span id="rc14673">[[#rc14673|14673]]</span> On the 26th of November 1879 you say, “Rode down through the Woolshed,” past Aaron Sherritt 's house. “Met [[John Sherritt Jnr|John Sherritt]], junior, and [[Patrick Byrne|Pat Byrne]] (Joe's brother). I had a long and interesting conversation with these worthies, who manifested much pleasure in meeting me. I wondered at the marked change in Jack 's manner towards me, as, on two or three previous occasions, he had carefully avoided me. I soon ascertained the reason. It appears, by their account, that the virtuous detective who is standing the season at Beechworth had stated, a day or two previously, that my name bad been added to the black list at the office; that he believed that bloody Wallace was in constant communication with the outlaws.’” What do you mean by that about the detective?— That was simply a report of what actually occurred; a conversation between Byrne, Sherritt, and myself, that Ward had spread that report in Beechworth, that I was on the black list at the office. That was meant to put Mr. [[Nicolson|Nicolson]] on his guard not to let Ward know that he had a bad feeling against me. These things were being frequently told me. ([[The Complete Inner History of the KellyGang and their Pursuers (45)|JJK]])
<span id="rc14674">[[#rc14674|14674]]</span> You simply meant by that that you and they were talking about Ward as being a man of very bad character; did you mean by that insinuation that Ward was engaged in immoral practices?— There is no insinuation; there is simply a statement of conversation.
14675 What did you mean by that?— Will you read it?
<span id="rc14676">[[#rc14676|14676]]</span> “The virtuous defective who is standing the season at Beechworth”?— That is exactly what I meant. He had the reputation of acting immorally, putting it in a mild form.
<span id="rc14677">[[#rc14677|14677]]</span> Have you any knowledge within your own experience of his having done so that would justify you in saying that?— No; not directly.
<span id="rc14678">[[#rc14678|14678]]</span> While you were pretending to give information to the police force, you were attempting to damn the character of a public officer without positive proof of facts?— The expressions were strong, I admit.....
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[[Royal Commission report day 42 page 6|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 42 page 8|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 3/8/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 3/8/1881|day 42]])
'''Mr James [[James Wallace|Wallace]]''' '''giving evidence'''
<span id="rc14659">[[#rc14659|14659]]</span> Did he say Mr. [[Nicolson|Nicolson]] had been enquiring about it?— Yes; he said he had been enquiring about it frequently and persistently.
<span id="rc14660">[[#rc14660|14660]]</span> “He remarked that [[Ward|Ward]] and he were on bad terms, and that you negotiated with him personally now”?— Yes, he made that remark to me.
<span id="rc14661">[[#rc14661|14661]]</span> And that he had no intercourse at that time at all with Ward?— That is what I understood him to say. The negotiation was carried on through Mr. Nicolson personally.
<span id="rc14662">[[#rc14662|14662]]</span> Then from that we would understand that he and Ward had quarrelled?— Yes.
<span id="rc14663">[[#rc14663|14663]]</span> Did he ever make any statement to you that he would drop you a few hundred notes?— No; he made some offer with regard to money, which I declined; I think it was £50—a loan of some money, that was it. He knew I was in financial difficulties; that was the reason he made the offer, I suppose.
<span id="rc14664">[[#rc14664|14664]]</span> Would you tell the circumstances under which such an offer as that was made?— No, I could not; I have only a hazy recollection of it; he said he had plenty of money, and if I were short he could lend me some.
<span id="rc14665">[[#rc14665|14665]]</span> This is a long letter you wrote about Tom Burke and his application for land?— Yes.
<span id="rc14666">[[#rc14666|14666]]</span> Have you still the same opinion of Tom Burke that you expressed there?— I have still.
<span id="rc14667">[[#rc14667|14667]]</span> And of the other members of the family?— Ned Burke I considered certainly had tendencies in the way of sympatbizing, but not the others.
<span id="rc14668">[[#rc14668|14668]]</span> “He wished me to write to [[Graves|Graves]] , [[Gaunson, David|Gaunson]], and Cooper, M.L.A., and to Reid, Wallace, and Wilson , M.L.C. and also to draw out a petition to Parliament “?— That is perfectly correct.
<span id="rc14669">[[#rc14669|14669]]</span> You mention in this letter, “ Barry said that if he was Byrne—I interviewed Jack Barry, of [[Hedi|Hedi]], last night. Had a conversation in re the outlaws; he was rather more reticent than he usually is, and would let out nothing tangible. I am sure he knows something about them, but I think it is indirectly through Ned Burke . Barry said that if he was Byrne, he would ride into Beechworth and shoot Ward at the first opportunity. I asked him why? What reason had Byrne to dislike Ward more than another? He replied that Ward had seduced Byrne's sister [[Catherine Byrne, Kate Byrne|Kate]] . I asked him how he ( Barry ) knew. He said he knew all about it, that the information had come through Byrne himself, and that he got to know it indirectly.” Was there anything of that going about with reference to the police or detectives in the district?— Only that solitary instance which I mention.
14670 And he actually made that statement to you?— Yes.
14671 You appear to have carefully reported to Mr. Nicolson all that you heard about Ward?— Yes.
14672 Was there a special kindly feeling existing between you?— No, I think not.
<span id="rc14673">[[#rc14673|14673]]</span> On the 26th of November 1879 you say, “Rode down through the Woolshed,” past Aaron Sherritt 's house. “Met [[John Sherritt Jnr|John Sherritt]], junior, and [[Patrick Byrne|Pat Byrne]] (Joe's brother). I had a long and interesting conversation with these worthies, who manifested much pleasure in meeting me. I wondered at the marked change in Jack 's manner towards me, as, on two or three previous occasions, he had carefully avoided me. I soon ascertained the reason. It appears, by their account, that the virtuous detective who is standing the season at Beechworth had stated, a day or two previously, that my name bad been added to the black list at the office; that he believed that bloody Wallace was in constant communication with the outlaws.’” What do you mean by that about the detective?— That was simply a report of what actually occurred; a conversation between Byrne, Sherritt, and myself, that Ward had spread that report in Beechworth, that I was on the black list at the office. That was meant to put Mr. [[Nicolson|Nicolson]] on his guard not to let Ward know that he had a bad feeling against me. These things were being frequently told me. ([[The Complete Inner History of the KellyGang and their Pursuers (45)|JJK]])
<span id="rc14674">[[#rc14674|14674]]</span> You simply meant by that that you and they were talking about Ward as being a man of very bad character; did you mean by that insinuation that Ward was engaged in immoral practices?— There is no insinuation; there is simply a statement of conversation.
14675 What did you mean by that?— Will you read it?
<span id="rc14676">[[#rc14676|14676]]</span> “The virtuous defective who is standing the season at Beechworth”?— That is exactly what I meant. He had the reputation of acting immorally, putting it in a mild form.
<span id="rc14677">[[#rc14677|14677]]</span> Have you any knowledge within your own experience of his having done so that would justify you in saying that?— No; not directly.
<span id="rc14678">[[#rc14678|14678]]</span> While you were pretending to give information to the police force, you were attempting to damn the character of a public officer without positive proof of facts?— The expressions were strong, I admit.....
=== Previous page / Next page ===
<br />
{{MicroficheCopy}}<br />
'''The [[Royal Commission report day 41 page 1|previous day]] / [[Royal Commission report day 43 page 1|next day]] . . . Royal Commission [[Royal Commission Index|index]]'''
[[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:June 1803]] [[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:Commisioner Standish]] [[Category:history]]
MediaWiki:Sidebar
{{^|Original page location \documents\RoyalCommission\RC810803_42_07_14659.html}}
