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Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence
[[Royal Commission report day 48 page 18|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 48 page 20|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 1/9/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 1/9/1881|day 48]])
'''Sup Francis Augustus [[Hare|Hare]] '''giving evidence''''''
<span id="rc16618">[[#rc16618|16618]]</span> When I told you I was going to recommend their discharge, why did not you warn them?— I had no right to do so. It would be a most outrageous breach of confidence for me to tell them you were going to discharge them.
16619 I told you openly?— You said to me you had recommended [[Berry, Chief Secretary|Mr. Berry]] to discharge them, and I said “all right,” and waited for my orders.
<span id="rc16620">[[#rc16620|16620]]</span> With reference to the accounts that I handed in, and which are printed in the accounts of expenditure, you stated that the cause of the excess in your accounts over mine was owing to expenses incurred in my time being paid afterwards in yours?— Yes.
<span id="rc16621">[[#rc16621|16621]]</span> Have you made enquiry to find that was correct?— Yes, the reason was that it was not decided when you left what travelling allowance was to be given to the men, and Captain [[Standish|Standish]] decided that after he went up there. Mr. Sadleir, Captain Standish, and myself discussed what would be a fair thing, and we said we would give a fair amount—five shillings—as the work was arduous.
16622 Are you not aware that one of the items of that account is for services rendered, the dates of the services rendered, not the dates of the payment?— I was not aware of it.
16623 Why did not you make yourself aware before denying the accuracy of those accounts?— I do not deny anything.
16624 The account of expenditure which is wanted here is made out, not for the date of payments, but for the services rendered?— I was not responsible for any expenditure there—you were—I was not except on the second occasion.
<span id="rc16625">[[#rc16625|16625]]</span> You hired Mr. MacBain's paddock?— Yes.
16626 Are you aware that soon after I came there I dispensed with it?— I was not aware of that
<span id="rc16627">[[#rc16627|16627]]</span> You spoke of allowing the outlaws to attack a bank?— Yes, I would have given anything if they would have attacked a bank, because that would Lave been the best chance of catching them.
<span id="rc16628">[[#rc16628|16628]]</span> Do you think, as an officer of police, you were justified in using the public or private residence belonging to citizens as a trap for desperate characters such as the Kellys?— I never did it. I said I would have been glad if they would have come out and attacked a bank, as the banks were well protected.
16629 ''By the Commission''— What protection had the banks?— There were always two or three constables and bankers on the alert, and every attempt was made to keep them up to the mark, to shoot the Kellys if they came.
16680 ''By Mr. Nicolson''— Was there no risk of shedding blood?— No doubt there is always.
16631 You stated this as one of your plans?— I always looked upon a bank as a trap to catch the Kellys. I do not say I made it a trap. It was by our taking proper precautions in case of that.
16632 Do you think that a proper principle for a police officer to act upon?— Undoubtedly. I often said to the bankers, “I wish they would stick you up, and we would know where they are.”
<span id="rc16633">[[#rc16633|16633]]</span> Are you not aware that Constable Falconer wrote to some constable about the cave party and about the Depot?— No, I never heard of it.
16634 Did you not hear he had written to a young horse-breaker named Lawless?— No, I never heard it, nor did Lawless ever tell me.
<span id="rc16635">[[#rc16635|16635]]</span> Why was Falconer recommended by you. Iauded by you, to the neglect of Canny, who was his guide?— Because [[Const William Canny|Canny]] was in the capture. It was not for promotion; it was for a portion of the reward. I never did recommend him for promotion, and never would at present.
<span id="rc16636">[[#rc16636|16636]]</span> Do you say the Sherritt family were about seven or eight?— Yes, I think so; perhaps five or six.
16637 You reduce it now to five or six; you said seven or eight?— Yes; I say they must have known it.
16638 But I am speaking of seven or eight?— Five or six I think was what I said.
<span id="rc16639">[[#rc16639|16639]]</span> Did not Mr. Sadleir request you to send warning to the police at Sherritt's hut, on the receipt of John Sherritt's letter?— No; I do not remember anything of the kind.
<span id="rc16640">[[#rc16640|16640]]</span> ''By the Commission''— About the agents—I would like to ask if Mr. Nicolson told you before he went away that he had agents?— Yes; he showed me their accounts.
<span id="rc16641">[[#rc16641|16641]]</span> You know how many he had?— Yes.
<span id="rc16642">[[#rc16642|16642]]</span> Did you know their addresses?— Yes.....
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[[Royal Commission report day 48 page 18|previous page]] / [[Royal Commission report day 48 page 20|next page]]
== The Royal Commission evidence for 1/9/1881 ==
''''''
=== full text ===
(see also introduction to [[Royal Commission report 1/9/1881|day 48]])
'''Sup Francis Augustus [[Hare|Hare]] '''giving evidence''''''
<span id="rc16618">[[#rc16618|16618]]</span> When I told you I was going to recommend their discharge, why did not you warn them?— I had no right to do so. It would be a most outrageous breach of confidence for me to tell them you were going to discharge them.
16619 I told you openly?— You said to me you had recommended [[Berry, Chief Secretary|Mr. Berry]] to discharge them, and I said “all right,” and waited for my orders.
<span id="rc16620">[[#rc16620|16620]]</span> With reference to the accounts that I handed in, and which are printed in the accounts of expenditure, you stated that the cause of the excess in your accounts over mine was owing to expenses incurred in my time being paid afterwards in yours?— Yes.
<span id="rc16621">[[#rc16621|16621]]</span> Have you made enquiry to find that was correct?— Yes, the reason was that it was not decided when you left what travelling allowance was to be given to the men, and Captain [[Standish|Standish]] decided that after he went up there. Mr. Sadleir, Captain Standish, and myself discussed what would be a fair thing, and we said we would give a fair amount—five shillings—as the work was arduous.
16622 Are you not aware that one of the items of that account is for services rendered, the dates of the services rendered, not the dates of the payment?— I was not aware of it.
16623 Why did not you make yourself aware before denying the accuracy of those accounts?— I do not deny anything.
16624 The account of expenditure which is wanted here is made out, not for the date of payments, but for the services rendered?— I was not responsible for any expenditure there—you were—I was not except on the second occasion.
<span id="rc16625">[[#rc16625|16625]]</span> You hired Mr. MacBain's paddock?— Yes.
16626 Are you aware that soon after I came there I dispensed with it?— I was not aware of that
<span id="rc16627">[[#rc16627|16627]]</span> You spoke of allowing the outlaws to attack a bank?— Yes, I would have given anything if they would have attacked a bank, because that would Lave been the best chance of catching them.
<span id="rc16628">[[#rc16628|16628]]</span> Do you think, as an officer of police, you were justified in using the public or private residence belonging to citizens as a trap for desperate characters such as the Kellys?— I never did it. I said I would have been glad if they would have come out and attacked a bank, as the banks were well protected.
16629 ''By the Commission''— What protection had the banks?— There were always two or three constables and bankers on the alert, and every attempt was made to keep them up to the mark, to shoot the Kellys if they came.
16680 ''By Mr. Nicolson''— Was there no risk of shedding blood?— No doubt there is always.
16631 You stated this as one of your plans?— I always looked upon a bank as a trap to catch the Kellys. I do not say I made it a trap. It was by our taking proper precautions in case of that.
16632 Do you think that a proper principle for a police officer to act upon?— Undoubtedly. I often said to the bankers, “I wish they would stick you up, and we would know where they are.”
<span id="rc16633">[[#rc16633|16633]]</span> Are you not aware that Constable Falconer wrote to some constable about the cave party and about the Depot?— No, I never heard of it.
16634 Did you not hear he had written to a young horse-breaker named Lawless?— No, I never heard it, nor did Lawless ever tell me.
<span id="rc16635">[[#rc16635|16635]]</span> Why was Falconer recommended by you. Iauded by you, to the neglect of Canny, who was his guide?— Because [[Const William Canny|Canny]] was in the capture. It was not for promotion; it was for a portion of the reward. I never did recommend him for promotion, and never would at present.
<span id="rc16636">[[#rc16636|16636]]</span> Do you say the Sherritt family were about seven or eight?— Yes, I think so; perhaps five or six.
16637 You reduce it now to five or six; you said seven or eight?— Yes; I say they must have known it.
16638 But I am speaking of seven or eight?— Five or six I think was what I said.
<span id="rc16639">[[#rc16639|16639]]</span> Did not Mr. Sadleir request you to send warning to the police at Sherritt's hut, on the receipt of John Sherritt's letter?— No; I do not remember anything of the kind.
<span id="rc16640">[[#rc16640|16640]]</span> ''By the Commission''— About the agents—I would like to ask if Mr. Nicolson told you before he went away that he had agents?— Yes; he showed me their accounts.
<span id="rc16641">[[#rc16641|16641]]</span> You know how many he had?— Yes.
<span id="rc16642">[[#rc16642|16642]]</span> Did you know their addresses?— Yes.....
=== Previous page / Next page ===
<br />
{{MicroficheCopy}}<br />
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[[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:December 1901]] [[Category:Royal Commission]] [[Category:Commisioner Standish]] [[Category:history]]
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