Royal Commission report day 13 page 5
Story of the KellyGang - the Royal Commission evidence
The Royal Commission evidence for 14/4/1881
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full text
(see also introduction to day 13)
Superintendent John Sadleir evidence
2809 That his mates were?— Yes. He also said, “Their armour is different to mine, and you can't get at them.” He gave me to understand that they were quite independent of all our firing. I spoke to him no more upon the subject.
2810 Was it your impression from his reply that they were two great curs?— That they were too great curs.
2811 I mean did you infer that they would not come out of the place?— That they would not venture out, or do anything bold like ordinary men.
2812 You had seen his armour at that time?— I had seen his armour at that time, but I had not time to study it.
2813 You knew they were armed; you had formed the opinion they were?— He told me so, he said their armour was altogether better than his.
2814 Long previous to this you knew they were to appear in armour?— I had heard of armour for months.
2815 Did you believe Gascoigne when he said so?— No; I could not believe it then.
2816 You stated when you went to Gascoigne that he told you, “Well, sir, I fired at him, and I am sure that I hit him; but I am satisfied they were in armour”?— Yes; that is true.
2817 Did you think then that that statement of Gascoigne's was true?— No; I did not think it.
2818 Though you had that previous knowledge?— Though I had the knowledge. I hand been informed for months before that the armour was preparing; I never thoroughly believed it, I looked upon it as an impossibility.
2819 Kelly did not tell you his comrades had escaped at that time?— We knew they had not; they were firing from time to time.
2820 Till you saw the armour of Kelly captured you did not believe that your men were firing upon men armed?— I did not. I never thoroughly believed it till I saw it.
2821 In answering that question in regard to Gascoigne I understood you to say, “I replied to him in this manner because I did not wish him to think them invulnerable”?— I would, if I had thoroughly believed it, have taken his word and said they were, but I was not impressed then. It is a sort of mistaken wisdom you sometimes fall into; you think you know better than your informants. Mr. Nicolson was the only man who believed it, I believe, except his informant. Of course there were a great number of people on the platform all the morning, and some of them my own friends and acquaintances, and the general feeling then was— “How are those men to be got at?”
2882 What o'clock?— All through the morning, up till seven or eight o'clock ; and I confess I, for one, did not see how to get at them. There were several, I think, of the reporters of the press who urged sending for a gun—a heavy gun.
2823 A cannon?— Yes; and this thing was pressed upon me by frequent repetition, by different persons frequently saying it; and I yielded to their persuasion, and telegraphed to Captain Standish, asking him if we could have a gun. That was the first mention of a gun, and I am responsible for it; it was entirely upon my own motion.
2824 Then you meant at that time you had formed the opinion that the men were armed in the house—protected by the use of armour?— Of course, if I had determined upon this—
2825 Under those circumstances there would be a great loss of life of your men by rushing?— Of course; that was my feeling all through the day.
2826 Had you not a consultation about the best means of getting the prisoners out of the house before this?— No; we felt the prisoners had to get themselves out; we could not help them. We wished them to come out, and called on them to come out.
2827 When did you call out to them first?— I could not really say; it seemed to be from the first there was an urging; in fact, I know from later knowledge that they were called upon to come out almost immediately after the Wangaratta police came there.
2828 What time were they liberated?— I was going on to say about that, that about 10 o'clock I got into a closer position on the north-east end of the building. I took out my watch, and I sang out, called out loud, “We will give you ten minutes—all innocent persons to come out.” Mr. Rawlins was standing beside me; he said, “I have a very big voice, let me call.” I desired him not to call; but the constable immediately in front, Constable Armstrong, straight in front of the windows and door, called out.
2829 Was that the Armstrong of the watch party mentioned before?— Yes; he called out as a bellman would call out at a sale. He called out, “ All you innocent persons come out, or you will be shot.” Then Mr. Rawlins called out to the same effect from my side; then the prisoners came buzzing out like bees; running out from the front door in great confusion, some of them towards where Gascoigne was, some to the front, straight out from the building. I called out to them to come in my direction. After some little confusion and delay on their part they came up to where I was standing.
2830 That is the north-east point?— That is the north-east point.
2831 There was no firing at this time?— No firing.....
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