Royal Commission report day 27 page 12
The Royal Commission evidence for 8/6/1881
(see also introduction to day 27)
Mr Allen giving evidence
10815 Arthur?— Yes, Sergeant Steele and Senior Constable Kelly. I do not think Mr. O'Connor was there; I am not sure the three reporters were there; and Constable Dwyer was there. I remember that, because I drew his attention to Kelly when first he appeared.
10816 Are you positive this was not in the station house?— I am very positive.
10817 Although six witnesses swear to the contrary, you would maintain you are right?— Although 150 witnesses swore to the contrary I would maintain I was right.
10818 You knew Mr. Sadleir?— Very well. I knew him in Melbourne very well.
10819 Are you aware that it has been sworn here as a fact that Kelly was carried down and helped over the fence and brought to the railway station, and then saw Mr. Sadleir for the first time?— I think I heard Mr. Sadleir give the order for his removal from the log.
10820 Then your impression is that it would be wrong if it was stated that he was brought down to the station and then first came in contact with Mr. Sadleir?— I think it would be wrong. I think, if you question Mr. Sadleir, you will find that what I say is the case. —[ The witness was requested to consider the point during the adjournment for lunch.]
10821 The Witness —I now wish to add that that is my impression; but if Mr. Sadleir, who ought best to be able to judge, says be was never there, I will not for a moment contradict him.
10822 If he swears he was at the drain at the time?— He ought to know best; but my firm impression is, even now, that he was there, and that he prevented me putting some questions to Ned Kelly; and I have looked up the papers since the adjournment and I can find nothing to say it was not so; but in the statement made by Senior Constable Kelly, he says that, after asking Kelly about Kennedy's watch, he handed him over to Mr. Sadleir and the doctor.
10823 As a matter of fact Mr. Sadleir swears that the first information of the capture of Ned Kelly came to him in the drain, and that he went up to the station to see him?— I merely give my impression.
10824 You will see it in the evidence here. At question No. 2797 Mr. Sadleir says— “Presently a constable came and explained that this was the capture of Kelly—this noise that we had heard; that was the first I had heard of it.” And at question 2804 he says, “After hearing that Kelly was captured, I went up to see him at the station”?— My impression is still that I saw Mr. Sadleir at the log.
10825 You would not contradict that statement of Mr. Sadleir?— No.
10826 You say you did not hear any more shots fired from the building after the capture of Ned Kelly?— Yes.
10827 Do you consider the shots that were fired at that time and heard by constables at one side or the other were the shots from the constables themselves on either side?— Yes, and the black trackers.
10828 Do you remember the letting out of the captives, about ten o'clock ?— I do.
10829 Did you see Mr. Sadleir there at that time?— I saw Mr. Sadleir at the tree—standing at the tree close to the hotel, on the Wangaratta side.
10830 That was not the tree that Steele was behind?— Oh no; it was lower down.
10831 Who was near at the time?— I think Mr. O'Connor was there—some of his men.
10832 Did anything occur between the time of letting the people out and the burning of the hotel, that you remember particularly, of importance?— Nothing of importance took place. The men were scattered—placed at all the trees around the hotel, and I understood that overtures were made to rush it by Constable Arthur, Senior Constable Johnson, and some one else, I am not sure.
10833 Was it Armstrong?— Yes, I think Armstrong was one. I was not there while the overtures were made, but I learned about the time they were made.
10834 At all events there seemed very little attention paid to the place after, except keeping watch?— They were watching, and there was occasional firing going on from the police at the hotel, but no response. I am quite satisfied there was no response after ten or eleven o'clock .
10835 There have been witnesses here who swear that about one o'clock the outlaws came to the back door outside, between the kitchen and the building, and that they fired and. the police fired in return; could that occur without your noticing?— It might, but I think I would have heard of it, and I did not hear of it.
10836 We have heard it positively sworn by men who said they exchanged shots?— If there were men close up to that place, but I do not think it could take place without everybody in the field knowing.
10837 Did you see the priest go up to the house—which way did he go up?— From the corner of that fence, from the wicket gate, right up to the front door.....
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