Royal Commission report day 22 page 29
The Royal Commission evidence for 18/5/1881
(see also introduction to day 22)
SConst Kelly giving evidence
8752 At what period of the fight was it you came to my position and asked me to come with you to place the men?— About ten minutes.
8753 Ten minutes after Mr. Hare left?— About eight or ten minutes, I suppose.
8754 After Mr. Hare left?— Yes, during the time that I went down from the corner, when I saw Rawlins coming along the railway line, I ran down to meet him at Mr. Stanistreet's house, the station master's house. I saw there was no ammunition, and I told Mr. Stanistreet to leave the house and take off his coat and run up to you.
8755 Did anybody hear you ask me that question?— There was nobody there about except the two black trackers.
8756 You asserted that you asked me that question?— As sure as I am sitting on this chair, I asked that.
8757 By the Commission— You swear that?— I swear that.
8758 You also swear that you saw Mr. Hare going to the station wounded, and that he came back bandaged?— Yes, I do.
8759 By Mr. O'Connor— How many times did you go to the railway station?— During the whole day?
8760 No, during the time up to Mr. Sadleir's arrival?— Once with the rifle, before Mr. Sadleir arrived.
8761 When was the second time you came to me?— The second time?
8762 Yes?— Only the time I came with Mr. Sadleir I never went near you.
8763 That was the second time?— That was the second time.
8764 You do not remember coming to me and telling me about the Kellys escaping?— I never went near you.
8765 You did not give me that information about the rifle?— I did not; I never spoke to you.
8766 Did you tell any one else that you found the rifle?— Yes, I told Mr. Sadleir.
8767 Did you tell any of the men?— I told several of the men; any of the men that were upon the railway station and the gentlemen of the press.
8768 Then some one else might have told me that you found the rifle?— Yes, some one might have told you.
8769 Then when Mr. Sadleir arrived did you inform him that I refused to assist you?— I did not. I told him where you were.
8770 You did not tell him I refused to assist you?— No, I did not.
8771 What was the first time you saw me after I left my position, left this trench?— I do not remember seeing you till about ten o'clock, I think, after the prisoners coming out.
8772 And not the time they were coming out afterwards; was it with Mr. Sadleir, or how?— I saw you up towards the railway station.
8773 You did not see me with Mr. Sadleir, when the prisoners were coming out?— No. I was close to Mr. Sadleir, always with him; I do not remember seeing you there.
8774 You say that when Mr. Hare called out to me to surround the house I did not do it?— You did not.
8775 What do you mean by “surrounding the house”?— I mean to place men all round the house, not to let one escape.
8776 You looked upon yourself as the officer in charge of the white men and I was in charge of the blacks?— Yes.
8777 And I did not surround the house with my men?— No.
8778 Are not you aware that the black boy “Hero” was one of the first out through the wicket gate–sworn to in evidence?— No; I know Barry told me he was a good man.
8779 By the Commission— And did come through?— No, he did not tell me that.
8780 By Mr. O'Connor— Then if it was a fact, and the men were assisting?— They were–what I saw of Hero and this man Kirkham.
8781 They were assisting to do the same work as you were–to keep the outlaws in the house till the daylight?— They were.
8782 Now, although you say you did not consider that I was an officer over you or in the force, do you state that Constable Kirkham was not under me?— Under you?
8783 Yes, under me?— I did not consider he was under you.
8784 You never did?— Never.
8785 You never were aware that he was transferred to me?— No, I never was. I was well aware that he was in charge of the blacks, and any time they were out Kirkham was with them. Whenever I went out with the blacks I was always told never to interfere with them–to leave everything to Kirkham.
8786 Whose orders to you were those?— Through Sergeant Whelan.
8787 From whom did they come to him?— Mr. Nicolson.
8788 Mr. Nicolson then would be in a position to say where I got the instructions from?— I do not know anything about that.
8789 Then you consider that Constable Kirkham never had anything to do with my command, and that was the reason why you ordered him to keep such a position?— Yes.
8790 And were very much annoyed, or angry we may call it, when you found he was with me?— I was not; I was angry with him to find that he left his post; it was not on account of his being with you
8791 You were angry, I suppose, because you found he had left his post?— Yes.
8792 He was one of your subordinates, and he disobeyed you?— Yes..
8793 Did you report this to Mr. Sadleir when he arrived?— It was in the presence of Mr. Sadleir I said it. I said, “Kirkham, what brought you here?”
8794 Did Mr. Sadleir then reprimand the man?— I do not know; I went away; Mr. Sadleir told me to go on.
8795 By the Commission— Was it when Mr. Sadleir and you came to the place where Mr. O'Connor was that it first came to your knowledge that Kirkham had left the place where you wished him to be?— That was the first time.
The witness withdrew.
Adjourned till Eleven o'clock to‑morrow.
[See report of Proceedings [~[18/5/81 ]|6138]~]
See next day 31/5/1991 ....
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