Royal Commission report day 12 page 7
The Royal Commission evidence for 13/4/1881
(see also introduction to day 12)
[[../../people/peU_Z/wyattMag.htm|Alfred Wyatt, P.M.]] giving evidence
2361 Do you mean where your wheels got locked?— Yes. I never knew it was Hart till Mr. McCauley informed me.
2362 You never told us before it was Hart—now do you say so?— I know it was from Mr. McCauley telling me. I was speaking to him about the sale of some land, two or three weeks before the Glenrowan outrage. I had met him for the first time in my life at the Killeen station one evening, and was conversing with him about the sale of some runs near Faithfull's Creek station; and he, to identify it, said, “Just about where you met Steve Hart;” and I said, “I never met Steve Hart.” And he said, “Do not you remember when you met him;” and I gave my reasous for not thinking it. And he said it was Steve Hart, and he knew it because Hart himself said so, and I said, “God bless me, what did he tell you?” He said, “When the party came back with the Scotts from the bank we were yarning, and Steve Hart said to me, “Who was that old buffer I met in the lane?”
2363 Alluding to you?— Alluding to me, I presume. Nobody could tell at the time, but at last somebody recollected that it was my day at Euroa; then they said immediately that was Mr. Wyatt, the police magistrate, when Steve Hart said, “By God, if I had known that I would have popped him.”
2364 I would now call your attention to the day of the bank robbery at Euroa. It is stated that Mr. Scott was taken prisoner and conveyed to Faithfull's Creek station—it is stated that the wires were broken, of which you cannot fix the hour, and you stated in your evidence that between eleven and twelve o'clock of that night you saw Johnson and party without the horses in the train at Benalla?— Much later than that.
2365 What hour?— Much after twelve. I imagine we got to the train, and they began to put the horses in about a quarter to one, but we did not start through delay in getting the horses in till half-past one.
2366 You then stated you came down with those men to Euroa, after you took the twenty-five minutes taking depositions?— Yes.
2367 After you came to Euroa the constables took the horses out again, and went out as you stated in your evidence, in the morning, and came back and told where the tracks led to, namely, they had gone up to Strathbogie and crossed the line again, and there they lost them—do you consider the police showed any want of efficiency in delaying the following up of the Kellys from the time of their arrival at Euroa until they really did follow them?— On the contrary, they acted more efficiently than I expected. They varied from my advice, and by so doing saved time. I advised them to stay for Mr. Nicolson, but they filled up the time judiciously and properly in looking for the tracks as they did.
2368 Did you advise the police, or say that in your opinion it would be desirable to wait for their superior officer before they followed up the tracks?— I said, “I think, under the circumstances, you will not do unwisely in waiting for your officer, provided the time is not too long,” but I then expected Mr. Nicolson to arrive some hours earlier than he did.
2369 You stated that Ward and Johnson were with the party, both of them apparently having a certain amount of charge?— Yes.
2370 You stated, I think, that Ward came to you and asked you—consulted with you as to whether it would be desirable to have an immediate pursuit, or whether he had better wait for his officer; and you gave us to understand that Ward had intimated to you that it was the desire of the officer that they should not go till be came?— I am not certain whether it would answer to those very words. I am not quite certain that Ward said those words to me—whether he said “I am to stop,” or whether he said some such words as these “Mr. Nicolson will be here”; but whether he expected him, or was absolutely enjoined to stay, I cannot be certain.
2371 You stated of your own accord just now that you considered the plan adopted by Mr. Nicolson for making the Kellys amenable to justice was better than the other course—what did you mean by the other course?— I mean the system of pursuits. I think it was better to lull them into a sense of security, to be spreading your hands in every direction, to secure information, and gradually, without making a cordon round them, which was impossible, to get the power to seize them as Power was seized.
2372 Who adopted any other course?— I understand Mr. Hare adopted a course of raids, a process which I do not think was likely to be of any use in that country, and with that class of men, as they were capable of evading pursuit.
2373 It has been stated in the papers that it is a better course in pursuing criminals of this class never to leave them at ease—to keep them continually on the move, and so that they may never be certain of the movements of the police?— I may say that that was the plan in New South Wales in the pursuit of Ben Hall and Morgan—they followed them night and day.
2374 Do you consider that is the wiser course, or to spread detectives round them, and make them amenable to justice in that way?— I should think that the pursuit course is not so advisable as the other course. I should think with men so well qualified to evade pursuit, and with such special means of supply and assistance, and such large pecuniary means as they had at that time, there would be a certain time which must expire during which they would be pursued in vain; and then, when the Government rewards were announced, they would have had some effect. I felt since that the Government rewards would act in this way: I did not think it would make any of those men untrue to each other, but some of those sympathizers would at some time draw distinctions between the two men who committed the murders and the other two. Some of the relatives of Joe Byrne Steve Hart would say— “You have not shed blood, why should you stand out?” Their relatives would say that, and there would be jealousy arise, and want of trust, of which at last the police would avail themselves......
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